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Badminton: Rolex Grand Slam Showdown. And Michael Jung

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  • #61
    Originally posted by vagabondrider View Post
    Another very cool characteristic of the post-XC standings: there are 7 countries represented in the top 12: Germany, New Zealand, Great Britain, Australia, Italy, USA, & Ireland. Great to see such an international group atop the leader board! Although I'm sure team GB is not pleased that only 1 in the top 12 at Badminton is British.
    You know, it was a great few days of competition, irrespective of nationality. One of the things that always strikes me is if the USA doesn't do well there is a LOT of blaming/questioning/hand wringing. 'we've not got the talent', 'we've got the talent but not the right horses', 'we've got the right horses but not the right trainers', 'our country's too big', 'our courses are too small'....

    I'm not saying no-one here thinks that, but generally; no, people aren't disappointed there's only one Brit. It was a great competition. Not necessarily a vintage Badders Cross Country, but a great, competitive competition - and if you look at the leaderboard - yes, some of our good riders - William and Mary, could've paid a bit more attention and avoided silly blips; but jeez, some great young horses (Tina Cook's second horse for example); and great young riders did a fantastic job (Tom McEwan and Sarah Stretton among them - both first timers on first time horses). There's nothing there to get our knickers in a twist about.

    It was dumb of the UK to turn down Christopher Bartle as team trainer 12 years ago, our loss; Germany's gain. But the last 12 years haven't been so bad... But please, let's not imply that there's going to be some sort of major crisis because Pippa/William and Mary had an unfortunate stop each. For every one of them there was a great first timer performance.

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    • #62
      Well, remember how he won at the Olympics ... Funny how life is some times.

      Interesting, it was. Jolly good show!
      "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

      Spay and neuter. Please.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Doodlebug1 View Post
        You know, it was a great few days of competition, irrespective of nationality. One of the things that always strikes me is if the USA doesn't do well there is a LOT of blaming/questioning/hand wringing. 'we've not got the talent', 'we've got the talent but not the right horses', 'we've got the right horses but not the right trainers', 'our country's too big', 'our courses are too small'....

        I'm not saying no-one here thinks that, but generally; no, people aren't disappointed there's only one Brit. It was a great competition. Not necessarily a vintage Badders Cross Country, but a great, competitive competition - and if you look at the leaderboard - yes, some of our good riders - William and Mary, could've paid a bit more attention and avoided silly blips; but jeez, some great young horses (Tina Cook's second horse for example); and great young riders did a fantastic job (Tom McEwan and Sarah Stretton among them - both first timers on first time horses). There's nothing there to get our knickers in a twist about.

        It was dumb of the UK to turn down Christopher Bartle as team trainer 12 years ago, our loss; Germany's gain. But the last 12 years haven't been so bad... But please, let's not imply that there's going to be some sort of major crisis because Pippa/William and Mary had an unfortunate stop each. For every one of them there was a great first timer performance.
        This!! It seems that lately a lot of people have been very pessimistic about the US riders' performance in the international competitions. I'll admit, we didn't have our best showing at the Olympics or WEGs the last time around ... But it gets frustrating to hear over and over how our horses aren't good enough or bred right; we don't have enough good up-and-coming riders; our dressage is horrible; etc.

        The bottom line is, there are good and bad competitions for everyone. I agree, overall the dressage could be better (although I think it's a "training" issue, NOT that the horses aren't good enough) ... But all this "we'll never be as good as the Europeans!" is frustrating to hear when there have been quite a few good rides that have been largely overlooked ... And when riders from other countries have bad days, too.

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        • #64
          Heartbreaker last fence for Michael, but go Jock!! I was rooting for him, as much as I love Michael and Sam.

          WFP had a runout at the corner at 21 on the first horse, horse jumped in big and he looked like he lost his reins. I believe in an interview I saw that his broken finger was influential there because it caused him to have some difficulty adjusting his reins quickly enough.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Doodlebug1 View Post
            You know, it was a great few days of competition, irrespective of nationality. One of the things that always strikes me is if the USA doesn't do well there is a LOT of blaming/questioning/hand wringing. 'we've not got the talent', 'we've got the talent but not the right horses', 'we've got the right horses but not the right trainers', 'our country's too big', 'our courses are too small'....
            I opened this thread for the first time and the above was at the top of the page. Then I went down the page a little a read this one:

            Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post
            This!! It seems that lately a lot of people have been very pessimistic about the US riders' performance in the international competitions.
            I though, "oh my, I guess I need to go back and read the gnashing of teeth in the pages 1-3." So I did. Only...no gnashing of teeth. At all.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by subk View Post
              I though, "oh my, I guess I need to go back and read the gnashing of teeth in the pages 1-3." So I did. Only...no gnashing of teeth. At all.
              Not referring so much to this thread in particular ... More in response to what was said in the aftermath of the Olympics, and those that seemed to believe that Sinead's performance at Burghley was an aberration!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by subk View Post
                ...
                I though, "oh my, I guess I need to go back and read the gnashing of teeth in the pages 1-3." So I did. Only...no gnashing of teeth. At all.
                I think she meant "gnashing of teeth" in general, not "gnashing of teeth on this thread".
                Janet

                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Janet View Post
                  I think she meant "gnashing of teeth" in general, not "gnashing of teeth on this thread".
                  It is rather obnoxious for a poster from a country that has only missed medaling in a team WEG/OG once in the last 20 to be critical of the speculation by other countries about their failure to win ANY team medals in the last 10 years.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by subk View Post
                    It is rather obnoxious for a poster from a country that has only missed medaling in a team WEG/OG once in the last 20 to be critical of the speculation by other countries about their failure to win ANY team medals in the last 10 years.
                    I'm American.

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                    • #70
                      And, if it matters, I'm half American, half English. Of course I and Sticky Situation meant over the last few years, or if SubK would prefer, I could modify that to the last 20 years...

                      SubK, I was reacting to another poster who said how unhappy the Brits would be that only 1 was in the top 20; I was just pointing out that the Brits probably don't regard it as being that much of a problem. I was not being critical of the speculation of a country that wants to get better, I was being critical of the assumption that the Brits would regard this as a failure and need for speculation. But you're right. I do think there is a bit too much of a 'blame' culture in the US. I was reading one of Denny's facebook threads earlier and people were saying 'oh, in Europe, the governments support the breeding' (not in the UK they don't) and a million other 'differences' that don't really exist in the UK.

                      Whatever the differences are, they aren't the horses. We don't have some fancy, government led breeding programme and studbook; many eventers are off the track TBs etc, nothing remarkable.

                      You know what? You have some things that aren't great - but the UK'd love a country that had a circuit like Florida in the winter. You know what? nowhere in the UK do we have a permanent horse set up like Kentucky. You know what? The UK'd love the shared learning that you get from all the different types of horsemanship in the USA. We'd love a chance to be located in a climate that wasn't pissing with rain with massive national parks that we could do our conditioning in instead of riding on the roads day in, day out. Oh, and we'd love somewhere so darn cheap to keep horses compared to here. Just think how good the UK would be if we had some of those advantages.

                      I'm sorry you see that as obnoxious. I want America to succeed as much as anyone, as I say, I'm as much American as English.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Doodlebug1 View Post
                        SubK, I was reacting to another poster who said how unhappy the Brits would be that only 1 was in the top 20; I was just pointing out that the Brits probably don't regard it as being that much of a problem. I was not being critical of the speculation of a country that wants to get better, I was being critical of the assumption that the Brits would regard this as a failure and need for speculation
                        So instead of saying, "Hey, I'm over here and that's not the vibe I get from the Brits at all," you have an entire opening paragraph that talk about how whinny you think Americans are. But your post wasn't about the Americans...Got it.

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                        • #72
                          I'm thrilled for Jock Paget. What a great win, and his first Badminton!

                          I was impressed with our Clark Montgomery's cross country riding (the tiny portion I was able to see).

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Doodlebug1 View Post
                            ...


                            You know what? You have some things that aren't great - but the UK'd love a country that had a circuit like Florida in the winter. You know what? nowhere in the UK do we have a permanent horse set up like Kentucky. You know what? The UK'd love the shared learning that you get from all the different types of horsemanship in the USA. We'd love a chance to be located in a climate that wasn't pissing with rain with massive national parks that we could do our conditioning in instead of riding on the roads day in, day out. Oh, and we'd love somewhere so darn cheap to keep horses compared to here. Just think how good the UK would be if we had some of those advantages. ...
                            Um... most of our National Parks are quite NOT set up for horses except for trail ride/pack station outfits (and even those are limited) and most of us don't live anywhere near them.

                            And most of us don't live or have our horses near roads that are even close to safe to ride on, and many of us have no easy access to out-of-arena conditioning areas. (I have access directly from the barn to an 1100 acre state forest, but the trails are mostly too rocky for anything but walking.) Now I would say that most of the ULRs here *do* have access to trails etc. for real conditioning, but it's not nearly as widespread as you think.

                            It may rain in the UK, but various parts of the US have months on end where it is really too hot/humid/cold/snowy/etc. to ride at all comfortably. Even Kentucky has seasons like this. Those who are wealthy can move between different parts of the country by season (different parts separated by 1000 miles or more), or live in one of the few places that is conducive to year-round riding (which also tend to be very expensive.)

                            (Sorry, going a bit OT, but you seem to be slightly misinformed about the conditions in the US...)

                            OTOH... come to think of it, it's mostly the really BNRs in the US who have access to these ideal things...
                            You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                            1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Doodlebug1 View Post
                              You know what? You have some things that aren't great - but the UK'd love a country that had a circuit like Florida in the winter.
                              I was under the impression the you had a winter circuit in Spain and Portugal.

                              You know what? nowhere in the UK do we have a permanent horse set up like Kentucky.
                              Hickstead?

                              You know what? The UK'd love the shared learning that you get from all the different types of horsemanship in the USA.
                              Seems you have many different tyoes of horsmanship in the UK. Much more hunting, and the associated activities (only available in a few parts of US). Steeplechases (only available in a few parts of US). Showing classes (unheard of in the US). As well as many things that are available both places.


                              We'd love a chance to be located in a climate that wasn't pissing with rain
                              You would rather live in a climate where the footing alternated between frozen solid and baked like concrete? Where, when it DOES rain, the ground turns into shoe-sucking, tendon tearing, deep mud? Where, some times of the year, you have to ride before 6 AM or after 7PM to avoid both you and the horse being stewed?

                              with massive national parks that we could do our conditioning in instead of riding on the roads day in, day out.
                              Most people are many hours away from a national park that allows riding, and most of them are not suitable for conditionsing work. The only one I can think of off hand is Sky Meadows State (VA) park, where people condition by going up Paris Mountain. But that has a total of 6 miles of trails where horses are allowed. Manassas Battlefield National Park has many miles of trails, but most of them are too twisty and uneven for serious conditioning. I live adjacent to a county park that has about 2 miles of trails, but again, most of it is too twisty and uneven for conditioning work.

                              I do most of my conditioning work around the outside of my pastures, and my sister takes hers to the race track for a lot of their gallops. There are probably more of those in UK than US.

                              Oh, and we'd love somewhere so darn cheap to keep horses compared to here. Just think how good the UK would be if we had some of those advantages.
                              Well, it isn't cheap everywhere. And the places were it IS cheap, it becomes expensive because you have to trailer 4+ hours (and stay in a hotel) to get to ANY (dressage, jumping, eventing) competition, or competent trainer.

                              I'm sorry you see that as obnoxious. I want America to succeed as much as anyone, as I say, I'm as much American as English.
                              And I am British, but have live in the US over 50 years.

                              You know what they say about the grass on the other side of the fence?

                              And about getting what you wish for?
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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                              • #75
                                Fantastic win for Jock, incredibly thrilling and exciting.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by skydy View Post
                                  I'm thrilled for Jock Paget. What a great win, and his first Badminton!

                                  I was impressed with our Clark Montgomery's cross country riding (the tiny portion I was able to see).
                                  I thought Clark's cross country was just brilliant riding as well! And his double clear today... well...
                                  We're spending our money on horses and bourbon. The rest we're just wasting.
                                  www.dleestudio.com

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                                  • #77
                                    Yay Christopher and Lani!! My best friend trains with him
                                    Proud member of the COTH Junior (and Junior-at-Heart!) clique!

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                                    • #78
                                      Here here for Jock and his fabulous TB!!!!! Grandson of Alydar.

                                      What a thrilling conclusion! I watched the Horse and Hound live blog on EN while at work. Great coverage by EN too!

                                      Very happy for Tiana, she had a great go, looks like she's put her nerves behind her
                                      Unrepentant carb eater

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #79
                                        Originally posted by Judysmom View Post
                                        Here here for Jock and his fabulous TB!!!!! Grandson of Alydar.

                                        What a thrilling conclusion! I watched the Horse and Hound live blog on EN while at work. Great coverage by EN too!

                                        Very happy for Tiana, she had a great go, looks like she's put her nerves behind her
                                        Agreed! The way the whole thing played out could hardly have been more thrilling. No Badminton last year. 2 Rolex Grand Slam contenders who are arch rivals. A triple individual gold medalist Badminton first timer. And in the end, the triple gold medalist barely had the very last rail down when everyone's already started to cheer. He lost the win at Badminton the same way he won the gold at the Olympics! Leaving the winner: a horse who was held at the jog that morning & had never show jumped clean in a 3 day, ridden by a former bricklayer also in his Badminton debut. And the top finishers probably hailed from a greater number of countries than ever before. Even the weather cooperated with sunshine & blue skies for XC & SJ. What an amazing weekend for the sport!
                                        Last edited by vagabondrider; May. 6, 2013, 10:44 PM.

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                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by vagabondrider View Post
                                          Agreed! The way the whole thing played out could hardly have been more thrilling. No Badminton last year. 2 Rolex Grand Slam contenders who are arch rivals. A triple individual gold medalist Badminton first timer. And in the end, the triple gold medalist barely had the very last rail down when everyone's already started to cheer. He lost the win at Badminton the same way he won the gold at the Olympics! Leaving the winner: a horse who was held at the jog that morning & had never show jumped clean in a 3 day, ridden by a former bricklayer also in his Badminton debut. And the top finishers probably hailed from a greater number of countries than ever before. Even the weather cooperated with sunshine & blue skies for XC & SJ. What an amazing weekend for the sport!
                                          Well-put!!
                                          SportHorseRiders.com
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