• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Advice on lease horse. Sriracha is pretty spicy!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by IFG View Post
    You are in Southern Ca, right? How much turnout is he getting?
    Daily for about 30 minutes for the week I've had him. I get the sense that his owner was working him once or twice a week at best. She's a third year vet student, so you can imagine her schedule. That's why she leased him.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
      I thought ulcers as well. Also....significant feed changes and turn out changes can really unsettle green horses. Hell...it unsettles some of my not so green horses.
      Do you think he could have developed ulcers in the week I've had him???

      Regarding feed changes, he is quite thin. He was being boarded in a very low income situation (unsafe IMO, but that's why there's 31 flavors I suppose) and was only fed two small alfalfa flakes a day. Now, he is being fed two generous alfalfa flakes per day plus Timothy for lunch and I'm giving him Safe Choice plus supps. Oooo, as I write that, that might be it! Maybe he's just being overloaded with (the appropriate amount of) food! Maybe he was so mellow at home because he was hungry and lethargic and now he's feeling his proverbial oats. Hmmmm....I love COTH.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by Simkie View Post
        Otherwise, it's lots of repetition, consistent and FAIR handling. If a horse like this feels you're being unfair, all is lost.
        I get the sense that he's very happy. He runs to the end of his stall when I drive up and waits for me. He nuzzles me everywhere (which we are stopping...although it's cute, it's not respectful of my human bubble) and is responsive to discipline. However, I think he just doesn't know what's expected of him. He acts like he wants to please, but isn't sure how. He strikes me as not only green but mentally immature. I feel like I'm dealing with a baby, which is okay, just unexpected since he was so mature under saddle when I tried him.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          When you're just leasing, what do you do about tack fit???

          So, I haven't officially tried my saddles on him, but I can just feel it in my gut...they're not gonna fit. They are both medium-wide and, at least right now as underweight and undermuscled as he is, he's no medium-wide. He may never be, being half TB. I am not going to spend thousands of dollars replacing my beloved saddles for a horse I may or may not keep in the long run. But, of course, I want him to be safe and comfortable. Any ideas?

          Comment


          • #25
            Look, it could be anything. It sounds like he's eating a lot of very rich food, he's getting almost no turnout, and he's a baby. I would still suspect pain as part of the equation since this nonsense started on the trailer ride over, not after he started eating like a king and getting minimal turnout. And yes, a horse can easily develop ulcers with one massively traumatic experience (like a bad trip from a commercial shipper.)

            That said, there's no reason to go blowing cash on ulcer treatments until you've addressed these other more obvious factors like handling, food, turnout, etc. If he's still being a pig in a week or so, you can figure out your next move then. Which might be to just send him back, it might be go to a cheap diagnostic for ulcers (like Tums before a ride or a few days of ranitidine/sucralfate 3x daily), or whatever.

            All of this is assuming the owner didn't flat-out lie to you about the horse being unflappable and trailering well. Not to point out the obvious, but the horse's name is Sriracha. I would have had a lot of questions for the owner about why they named an allegedly unflappable horse after a super spicy condiment.
            Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by jn4jenny View Post
              Not to point out the obvious, but the horse's name is Sriracha. I would have had a lot of questions for the owner about why they named an allegedly unflappable horse after a super spicy condiment.
              Hahaha, should have been my first clue. When I'm not staggering around sick, I'll try riding him every day for a week and see where we end up. I'm thinking he is just eating like a kinf and needs mental and physical work to counteract the mental stimulation of a new situation. I'll report back.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                Hahaha, should have been my first clue. When I'm not staggering around sick, I'll try riding him every day for a week and see where we end up. I'm thinking he is just eating like a kinf and needs mental and physical work to counteract the mental stimulation of a new situation. I'll report back.
                Stupid question that maybe you've addressed and I missed it, but have you talked to the owner about how he is acting? I'd think a quick call to say hey, your horse is acting like a total spook monster that is afraid of his own shadow, is this normal for him in a new place? Might be a good place to start. She might have some ideas or insight about how long it might take to settle - or at least express total surprise that he's acting like a fool. And will then be aware of the situation if you decide to send him back.

                Comment


                • #28
                  I heard rather than saw them coming down the road. He was kicking like a mad man and came off the rig drenched and sweat, whites of his eyes rolling. The owner had told me that he trailers well...um, apparently not.
                  She kind of made it seem as if he had show miles, but the real story is that he was supposed to go to a show and had a meltdown on the way there.
                  I think you have a horse that REALLY needs to learn how to be trailered. If you ever want to go to a show, or ever need to take the horse to the vet clinic, you really need to start now.

                  It's easy to (under)feed a horse into submission. My OTTB was just that way.
                  But it does sound like a bit of appropriate firmness on your part is bringing out the gentleman in him, so that is encouraging.

                  I would, however, be VERY wary with the trailer thing. It can be hard to find a ride for your horse if you don't have your own trailer, and REALLY hard if your horse has a reputation for kicking the tar out of trailers.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                    Plus...Trakkenhers are a bit...different..
                    HAHAHA This is so funny... Every Trak I've known has been quirky, to say the least.

                    OP... I'd just have to say good thing it's a monthly lease and you're not roped in for longer term. I would let the owner know how he's doing, and if he's not settled more by the end of the month, take him home!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      He's only getting 30 minutes of turnout? Get him out for at least 8-12 hours and see what you have.

                      And IIRC, Safe Choice is actually pretty high in NSC? Or is that old data?

                      An yes, absolutely, he could have developed ulcers in a week.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by jn4jenny View Post
                        Look, it could be anything. It sounds like he's eating a lot of very rich food, he's getting almost no turnout, and he's a baby. I would still suspect pain as part of the equation since this nonsense started on the trailer ride over, not after he started eating like a king and getting minimal turnout. And yes, a horse can easily develop ulcers with one massively traumatic experience (like a bad trip from a commercial shipper.)

                        That said, there's no reason to go blowing cash on ulcer treatments until you've addressed these other more obvious factors like handling, food, turnout, etc. If he's still being a pig in a week or so, you can figure out your next move then. Which might be to just send him back, it might be go to a cheap diagnostic for ulcers (like Tums before a ride or a few days of ranitidine/sucralfate 3x daily), or whatever.

                        All of this is assuming the owner didn't flat-out lie to you about the horse being unflappable and trailering well. Not to point out the obvious, but the horse's name is Sriracha. I would have had a lot of questions for the owner about why they named an allegedly unflappable horse after a super spicy condiment.
                        Bingo!

                        And honestly, more turnout! Less grain... get him on a low sugar diet....!
                        We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Baby brain

                          I don't think you have unusual, you may just have an active young horse who has not had discipline or real training. It is not uncommon to have "training" for management basics that only goes as long as there is argument and as soon as the young horse stops arguing the hander assumes that means they are trained. Real training is not a passive activity. Really being trained, like training to tie, is not...he is good if I am standing here. Many many people do not "train" past a gentlemans agreement. You end up with many many holes in the training. Horses who don't tie...that is likely the basic problem with the hauling...because they have never had their training finished but just assumed. He has never been taught that you still behave and stand quietly even if you are bored or impatient...people assume he will behave but never really stretch training beyond initial concepts. I think you will enjoy the work and it is likely what you will encounter with many young horses you will come to in the future in one way or another. You seem thought full and stubborn enough to make this fellow better for have known you. In your brain...start from scratch...be happily surprised if he already has a concept down and is ready to move to the next issue. Don't skip basics...test them all so that the next time he gets in a trailer he is mentally better prepared. I agree use a chain without guilt he will be safer with clear rules. Have fun. PatO

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Event4Life View Post
                            You're right, he should have settled in within the week, easily IMO. When we take a horse to show there's usually no "settling in", just get on and ride, so it should be the same when they move barns too. Granted he's getting used to a new routine/new people/situation, but again, it shouldn't be as big of a deal as it sounds. I would worry about drugging too.

                            I think you should get in touch with his owners, or ask your trainer to do so, and try to get the real story before you put a lot of time/money/effort into addressing anything. This is supposed to be fun, and if you are not going to have any on this horse it may be better to move on quickly without devoting a lot of resources to it. There is something to be said for a horse who can teach you, of course, but you also shouldn't be totally miserable in the process.

                            Just food for thought.
                            ^^^ Agree.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Now that I understand that you are doing a free lease with an option to buy I have a slightly different opinion!

                              I would take into consideration any training or handling issues you run into from this point forward and use those to adjust the price you are willing to offer. Is this horse worth $5500 with his issues as present? In a month after you've put all that work into him, is he worth MORE because you trained him, or LESS because you HAD to train him? Is the owner going to take back their nicely trained horse and sell him for the asking price or higher?

                              I find it unusual that he's a free lease for an option to buy at such a high price. If he were worth that price then he'd be for sale period or you'd be paying to lease him.
                              http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I hope he works out for you!
                                http://pony3express.blogspot.com

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                                  Do you think he could have developed ulcers in the week I've had him???

                                  Regarding feed changes, he is quite thin. He was being boarded in a very low income situation (unsafe IMO, but that's why there's 31 flavors I suppose) and was only fed two small alfalfa flakes a day. Now, he is being fed two generous alfalfa flakes per day plus Timothy for lunch and I'm giving him Safe Choice plus supps. Oooo, as I write that, that might be it! Maybe he's just being overloaded with (the appropriate amount of) food! Maybe he was so mellow at home because he was hungry and lethargic and now he's feeling his proverbial oats. Hmmmm....I love COTH.
                                  The fastest ulcers can develop is about 48 hours.

                                  My last OTTB came off the track VERY underweight, and was super lethargic, barely jog-shuffled along. As soon as he got some better food and put on weight, he was like a different horse--a firecracker with lots of go!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    More turnout, less grain. Can you leave him soaked hay cubes etc in a bucket to munch all day? Beet pulp with his meals and less hard core concentrate.

                                    BTW... 2 flakes of hay A DAY? I am having a hard time imagining such a large horse on so little not having ulcers. Time for blue pop rocks!

                                    Sadly it probably is less turnout and more grain, so try and fix it but I bet he will be hotter than you anticipated. Not like you can go back to a program of not feeding him enough.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by magicteetango View Post
                                      BTW... 2 flakes of hay A DAY? I am having a hard time imagining such a large horse on so little not having ulcers. Time for blue pop rocks!

                                      no kiding. My horses out on good grass for 8 hours a day get closer to 1/2 bale of hay a day. Basically as much as I can get them to eat. The youngsters and skinny ones also get alfafa. Maybe they are 2 flakes of the really large bales of hay???? Otherwise...I would be doing a bucket of soaked hay cubes...get his forage up substantially.
                                      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        The 2 flakes of alfalfa a day and 30 min of turnout is a California thing. Mind-boggling to those of us on that started eventing on the east coast I realize. It is pretty typical out there to feed low-roughage high-protein diets which makes dealing with any hot horse a nightmare (not to mention the resulting colic, soft tissue injuries, etc etc.... can you tell I was glad to move back to TN?)

                                        To the OP, best bet is going to be getting him lots of turnout (and not in a round pen- somewhere he can run around). This means something like 8+ hours a day. He also needs lots of low protein roughage - "cheaper" hay like a mixed grass, fescue or even timothy would be much better and I'd stop the alfalfa all together. Look for something he can much on all day. However, good luck finding those in Southern CA.....

                                        Bottom line is this might not be a horse that can tolerate the fancy-facility lifestyle. I had 2 of those myself!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I know on your other thread that you've been contemplating taking a break from horses. I think that your facility will limit the horses you can have if you want to ride now. I know there are many horses that can do fine with limited turn out but adding that dimension to your requirements, especially if you are looking at OTT or young horses, will make it all that much harder. None of my horses would have stayed sane for that. At the very least mine have gotten 5-6 hours/day of turnout.

                                          I understand there's not much you can do about it because that's what barns in California seem to be like, but it is probably adding to your frustration.
                                          Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                          EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X