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Breeding the Event Horse--4 part series on Irish Horse TV

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  • Breeding the Event Horse--4 part series on Irish Horse TV

    I've been watching this this evening.

    It's worth watching.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

  • #2
    Yes ma'am. Will do.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


    • #3
      So this panel advocates breeding with tb blood, especially tb mares. Hmm this is also my philosophy, and I am part irish through my maternal grandmother


      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by Renascence View Post
        So this panel advocates breeding with tb blood, especially tb mares. Hmm this is also my philosophy, and I am part irish through my maternal grandmother
        I was taken by the statements about how the RID has changed and is not a good choice for an eventing stallion unless one is willing to take a couple of generations to get the desired amount of blood. I was also interested in their comments about "Continental Horses."

        The woman, who is a very successful breeder, also made the comment that the type of horse that excels at 4* really hasn't changed that much from the long format horse. She's the expert, but it certainly looks as if the BNRs are going to a different type of horse with more "Continental".
        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
        Thread killer Extraordinaire


        • #5
          Stop blaming the Irish Draught.

          I am sorry but I don't hold much confidence in Irish opinion(especially HSI, Horse Sport Ireland or their predecessors The Irish Horse Board)on their own horses. I have been involved with Irish Draughts for 13 years now and I have just not seen poorer marketers of horses or less awareness of their own horses athletic ability.

          I think this is especially important as regards movement. Anything not Cloverhill, King of Diamonds and Cruising really is not fairly evaluated for jumping ability. They do not respect the talents of their own horses. I have flat out had an Irish breeder declare that Fast Silvers(who they don't use) can't jump. I have known 4 Fast Silvers and they jump very well over here... fast quick reactions, not at all sloppy, very trainable, good dressage horses, very good endurance. The Irish don't do dressage...they market with jump and canter. You can see tons of video with not a step of trot or walk.

          The problem with Ireland is not breeding sport horses as much as marketing sport horses...they are not competitive marketers. The old style of marketing was to take horses to sales, lightly backed perhaps but no finish work, and international buyers would show up and pick up 3 and 4 yos, take them home, lose the papers, and develop the young horses as if they materialized from nothing. Anything not sold well will not be used an likely will end in kill. Pretty ruthless. The condition of the horses depended on the condition of the grass less on recognizing that a well prepared horse got more money. Horses have been livestock and it obviously makes me mad to hear the Irish blaming the Irish Draught for their failure to be competitive horse producers.

          I imagined wonderful horsemen ably producing market horses...they are lacking an educated young horse starting arm of their production of sport horses...not too different than in the US...and then very very few who can finish prospects let along prepare them for upper level competition.

          They look at continental Europe with envy but comparable horses don't get as well prepared for market so they can't get the price. They try to mimic the Dutch inspections like that is where they are going to get back their market but they neglect the infrastructure of education of riders on the continent that develops the young horses produced by the sport breeders.

          Very frustrating and wrong to blame the Irish Draughts. What I have found different than they have is that the Irish Draughts are very good movers and they don't just produce the sanity and soundness and toughness needed but they bring great canters and very good trots and walks. Those are not provided by TBs in the past and certainly not with todays TBs. There ARE less reactive and more reactive Irish Draughts(by reactive I am talking about reaction time, speed over the ground, interest in jumping clean, endurance) but there are also CUSTOMERS for the less reactive Irish Draughts. There were some very good producers( 3 major stallion men and women) who were both very good at making matches that brought out their stallions and then who were very good at getting their horses well prepared into the market place...their stock succeeded because of that and their stallions became the stars of Ireland. There were many more stallions who were not presented as well who had good stock who never were developed and presented and their lights are always under the basket...that does NOT mean the top three were the ONLY Irish Draught to produce useful athletic horses for sport.

          Obviously I have strong feeling about this but no one makes me angrier than the HSI people blaming Irish Draughts for the failiures of ISH to thrive in modern sport horses. They historically relied on outside people to get their horses into the light and now those people have their own horses to develop. They don't show up at the Irish sales to pick up less prepared conditioned horses. The Irish still barely acknowledge mare lines at a time Germany worships theirs. So many failings in marketing and preparing horses for sales...so many places to educate breeders...instead they choose to focus on this. Thank goodness the Gorsebridge Go For The Gold sale is rewarding a few people who are taking advantage of a great idea...maybe they will see the light. And QUIT trying to make the Irish Draught into the new Irish warmblood. PatO


          • #6
            I think this is especially important as regards movement. Anything not Cloverhill, King of Diamonds and Cruising really is not fairly evaluated for jumping ability. They do not respect the talents of their own horses. I have flat out had an Irish breeder declare that Fast Silvers(who they don't use) can't jump. I have known 4 Fast Silvers and they jump very well over here... fast quick reactions, not at all sloppy, very trainable, good dressage horses, very good endurance. The Irish don't do dressage...they market with jump and canter. You can see tons of video with not a step of trot or walk.

            Funny, this makes sense! Lol, my ISH has a wonderful canter and jump, really effortless. But his trot is just, meh.... Hmmmmm


            • Original Poster

              They aren't blaming the Irish Draught. They are just saying what everyone else says--that for UL eventing you need more than 50% blood. The woman kept saying that the modern RID is not like the old ones which often had several TB crosses up close. Today you can look at a RID pedigree and not see TB in the first four or five generations. If the goal is 7/8ths TB for the ULs, a RID can't do that in one generation. So, she says, breeding RID into an UL horse is a multi-generation thing. Seems to the what most other people say as well. RIDs are not speed/stamina horses, nor are they usually fancy movers, and they tend not to be light but heavy.. All of those qualities, including not having heft, to carry around are needed for UL eventing. No one denies the brain or the jump, but those just aren't enough.
              "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
              Thread killer Extraordinaire


              • #8
                I heard it like VR did and I agree with them. They did not put down IDs and worship Continentals( apparently their continental is what we call a warmblood) They said IDs bred to Continentals made plain horses. I agree. Actually lots of "Continentals" bred to "Continentals" also make plain horses from what I have observed. You need a fancy horse nowadays to win all 3 phases.
                They said breed IDs and ISHs to TBs. They said they are still number 1 in eventing. How can anyone not agree with this?


                • #9
                  Do you NEED >50% blood for upperlevel? or is it nice to have and to be in the top 10 you should have it? I'm pretty sure there are quite a few 4* horses with 50% or less... and if you aren't PD or BD, you might NEED one that is actually less than 50% just to ride it in the dressage....


                  • #10
                    I can't agree with you since I usually win dressage with my 100% tb against all breeds and registries. Yeah I am only an old amateur who competes lower level. But especially when everyone can jump clean, dressage is an important phase if you like to win. I did purpose breed my tb.

                    I don't think you would find any upper level rider who wouldn't prefer more than 50% tb blood.