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Is this flap forward enough for me?

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  • #21
    A 17.5 with a flatter seat will also give you more room, this saddle is pretty deep by the looks of it.
    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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    • #22
      I'm not convinced you need an 18. You definitely need more femur clearance which a more forward flap will give you, but your tush looks to be in a good spot.

      I also jump in an Albion (k2), I'm also 5'9" with a very long femur. My saddle is a 17.5 and its fantastic.

      (My dressage saddle, OTOH, is a trilogy and I had to get the 18" to fit me properly)
      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

      The Grove at Five Points

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
        A 17.5 with a flatter seat will also give you more room, this saddle is pretty deep by the looks of it.
        This saddle can be ordered as a "flat" (less deep seat) or a "deep", and with a more forward flap. I'm just not sure how much more forward - a question for the saddle fitter.

        This particular saddle in the photos is I believe a "deep" Kontrol. I'm not sure about the flap though. I emailed Albion with the serial # to find out, but I'm still waiting to hear back. I'm not taking this saddle since it's way too wide, but I wanted to know if this saddle had the forward flap version of this model.

        I was considering ordering this saddle as a 17.5 inch, flat, forward. I may be able to order the flap even more forward than the normal forward, but I'm not sure. I'll ask the saddle fitter.


        Actually, you could go to an 18 in this saddle if you got upswept panels. Are you dead set on Albion? Because County has an eventing saddle that looks like it would fit you well, and they make them with skid row panels; try looking on eBay or Tack Trader, just for giggles.
        No I'm not dead set on an Albion, but its a saddle that I've sat in that made me go "ooooohh this is nice!!". And then I really liked it when I rode in it (flat and tiny jumps). I've never sat in County. There is a rep a couple of provinces away, but they're not a popular brand in Canada and they're hard to come by used here. I know I can't afford a new County, but I can likely afford a new Albion (especially once a dressage saddle I have sells). I've sat in Black Country's and they felt ok, but not great like the Albion.

        I see all these great used saddles (like County's) for sale in the States, but it's pretty much impossible to try them since returning them is nearly impossible because of paying duty across the border. I don't want to buy a saddle from across the border and not have it work, since then I'll be stuck reselling it here.

        Comment


        • #24
          My guess would be if you went with a flatter seat and just a bit more forward it would be fine.

          If you go too forward in a stock saddle, it can affect the balance. I'd just worry looking at the photo that in that deeper seat it will get in the way xc.

          Good luck saddle shopping...it is tough, especially if you can't ride in what you are ordering.
          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by RiverBendPol View Post
            2. you can't go into an 18" on this horse. He is already supporting the weight of the saddle (and you) over his last rib. You can't go beyond that. (who knew?)
            Eek, I did not know!
            My saddle has a very long banana like seat (Berney Bros) that violates this on both my horses, and probably would on many/most. Ugh. Well, I'm glad to know now.

            Comment


            • #26
              Ugh. There is something I really don't like, but I'm not sure exactly what it it. Everything feels shoved forward to me. I'm not sure what everyone is talking about "last rib" and all but the saddle looks way too forward on his body to me. Crammed up to his withers--look where the point of the shoulder is then follow shoulder angle back, look how snugged up behind the elbow the girth is. Now look at the stirrup and leathers, already there is a slight angle in what you can see of the them where her foot is being pushed backed. It also looks like she's sitting toward the twist--which is often a function of saddle that is too wide. This one you admit doesn't fit your horse. How a saddle fits a horse plays a BIG role in how you sit in it and how it fits you.

              I'd love to see a picture of you jumping and riding around. I would suspect that over a jump this saddle would push your lower leg back--something that can easily happen in a saddle you "feel" secure in. On a saddle you think you like it is easy to produce a picture with you sitting nicely at a halt. Unfortunately, what you look like sitting in it at the halt isn't very important!

              I think you need to try more saddles. Start with fitting the horse then work on fitting you.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by subk View Post

                I think you need to try more saddles. Start with fitting the horse then work on fitting you.

                This I really agree with. I didn't love the saddle but admit I can't tell much from a still photo. I had a saddle that I LOVED on one horse...but on another horse, ugh...put me in a horrible position. How the saddle fits on a horse can really change the balance and how it feels.
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by subk View Post
                  Ugh. There is something I really don't like, but I'm not sure exactly what it it. Everything feels shoved forward to me. I'm not sure what everyone is talking about "last rib" and all but the saddle looks way too forward on his body to me. Crammed up to his withers--look where the point of the shoulder is then follow shoulder angle back, look how snugged up behind the elbow the girth is. Now look at the stirrup and leathers, already there is a slight angle in what you can see of the them where her foot is being pushed backed. It also looks like she's sitting toward the twist--which is often a function of saddle that is too wide. This one you admit doesn't fit your horse. How a saddle fits a horse plays a BIG role in how you sit in it and how it fits you.

                  I'd love to see a picture of you jumping and riding around. I would suspect that over a jump this saddle would push your lower leg back--something that can easily happen in a saddle you "feel" secure in. On a saddle you think you like it is easy to produce a picture with you sitting nicely at a halt. Unfortunately, what you look like sitting in it at the halt isn't very important!

                  I think you need to try more saddles. Start with fitting the horse then work on fitting you.
                  This horse has an extremely forward and small girth groove and an upward slope of his back towards his withers. Every saddle slides forwards on him. I had been riding around in the saddle a bit before the picture was taken. I had a look at the picture after it was taken, got off and slide the saddle back a couple inches for the remainder of the ride. I didn't think to retake pictures. This saddle was better than most for not sliding forward up on his shoulder blade, especially since it was very wide and the flocking quite compressed. I will be getting an anatomic long girth for him and a saddle with full front gussets and a drop panel to counteract the forward slide of saddles on him. One thing that concerns me about this saddle is that the back of the panels are quite substantial which can contribute to the saddle being pushed forward onto his back. I'm going to see what Albion can do about this eg, upswept panels, softer flocking.


                  As for the stirrup leathers being pulled back. That's me. I do that in every saddle (dressage, all purpose, close contact, jumping), I keep my lower leg too far back. I don't know if this a symptom of riding for years in saddles with a flap not forward enough or just a bad eq habit. In fact, last night I was working on keeping my heel a bit more forward in my minimal Barnsby CC saddle.

                  I do have some video of me riding in the saddle that I can see if I can take some stills from. I likely won't be able to do that till later tonight or tomorrow though.

                  I am open to more saddle suggestions. I am going to ask the saddle fitter what she has that might work. I live in an area with very limited supply of English saddles and most are Equipes (I don't like), Prestige (expensive and most are foam flocked), or just cheapy close contacts (HDR, Santa Cruz/Toulouse), Amerigo's (not forward enough in the flap and over budget new).

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Karosel View Post
                    As for the stirrup leathers being pulled back. That's me. I do that in every saddle (dressage, all purpose, close contact, jumping), I keep my lower leg too far back. I don't know if this a symptom of riding for years in saddles with a flap not forward enough or just a bad eq habit.
                    You're pulling your leg back, yet your toe is right at your horse's elbow. Add to that the saddle doesn't put you in any kind a "chair seat" which sometimes explains the forward foot.

                    The flaps and their size and placement do next to nothing in changing your position unless they are interfering. Since you already think you've had that problem then you should really lean toward a saddle that gives you more room and leg freedom instead of less. Your position and lower leg placement are almost entirely a function of the seat's balance--the relationship between where you sit and how it relates to the location of the stirrup bars--not the flaps.

                    The good news is that often the "leg slipping" back is something that can be significantly mitigated with a saddle that fits you AND the horse correctly. (Ask me how I know this!! )

                    Another thing to ask your saddler is if the back billet can be moved so that it is attached farther back and the two will come together at your girth in a "V" shape. In addition if every saddle has this strong tendency to slide forward you probably need to expect some custom stuffing work at the very least.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                      A 17.5 with a flatter seat will also give you more room, this saddle is pretty deep by the looks of it.
                      that's what I always look for.
                      Since I like to ride small, I need a flat seat so that my butt can scoot off the back a little when needed. Also because I ride with a longer stirrup do to my botched swimmers knees, deeper seated saddles will whomp me in the butt when I gallop.

                      here's a good pic of me in my [too small] prestige.
                      Galloping it's glorious. : )
                      http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/a.jpg

                      and it allows me to scootsie scoots right off the back due to the flatter seat. http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p.../prestige2.jpg

                      With short backed horses you might need a saddle like this...which also comes with upswept panels.
                      Those black countries are pretty flat too.

                      I think Albion makes a really flat short saddle...WFP rides in them I believe.
                      He looks waaaaay funny with his saddle because they are WAY small.

                      see! WFP don't care!
                      http://www.an-eventful-life.com.au/s...-Pitt-3198.jpg

                      LMAO. I always crack up when I see him on course. He looks like he rides in a racing saddle.
                      http://www.an-eventful-life.com.au/s...-Pitt-6975.jpg

                      ooo check out the contact jewell!! if only I had the money for another saddle! I would totally try this one.
                      http://www.albionsaddlemakers.co.uk/...ing-range.html

                      have that rep let you try a kontact lite and a kontact dual.
                      http://kaboomeventing.com/
                      http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                      Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        barnsby has a new line too. they look totally wicked.
                        http://www.barnsby.com/barnsby-direc...es/39-eventing

                        I prefer spring tees and foam flocking though. So if you have preferences that makes it hard to shop as well. : /
                        http://kaboomeventing.com/
                        http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                        Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Purplenurple,

                          Yes I have considered the model WFP rides in, called the Kontact. I would be more interested in the dual. Unfortunately I can't try any of the Albion jump saddles since the rep only carries the dressage models.

                          I'm extremely reluctant to fork out 3K for a saddle I've never even sat in let alone ridden in.

                          I'm also reluctant to spend a lot of money on a saddle with such a specific fit for this horse that it won't fit another horse. And then if my horse goes lame or dies I have this saddle that will be hard to sell in my area (Western riding central). (British makes are a hard sell in Canada, although Black Countries are becoming somewhat more popular. French saddles are a much easier resale).

                          I'm seriously considering getting somewhat of a more 'generic' fit that I can make work with a half pad/shims and an anatomic girth. Of course with the guidance of a saddle fitter.

                          I feel like I keep waffling back and forth between shelling out a lot of money on a custom saddle for my horse and I. Or going for a moderately priced saddle (about 2K) that fits my thigh and fits my horse with a combo of shimmed halfpad (front shims to fill in wither hollows) and anatomic girth. I already have a shimmable halfpad and just need an anatomic long girth.... and the saddle of course.


                          Anyone have experience with the Pessoa Legacy Event saddles?

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Anne has a lite in used model!
                            http://equestrianimports.com/shop/in...Sadd#accLink22

                            also, she rents saddles. It's expensive. 200 bucks a month I think. But can be a life saver.
                            I rented my dressage saddle for 3 months before buying it. It cost 180 a month back in 2006.
                            The down side is that the rental money won't go towards the cost of a new saddle.
                            http://kaboomeventing.com/
                            http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                            Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Karosel View Post


                              Anyone have experience with the Pessoa Legacy Event saddles?
                              meee! Purp raises hand!
                              I catch rode my friend's horse at a jumper show and that is what she had.
                              I felt fine in it.

                              lemme go dig up a pic

                              eh.
                              rather than pull pics and upload with photobucket I just made the album public.
                              Let me know if the link is no bueno.
                              oh,
                              paint horse has my prestige eventer
                              black horse has the pessoa legacy. (17.5" seat)

                              http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...4505211&type=3
                              Last edited by purplnurpl; Apr. 10, 2013, 04:55 PM.
                              http://kaboomeventing.com/
                              http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                              Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                                meee! Purp raises hand!
                                I catch rode my friend's horse at a jumper show and that is what she had.
                                I felt fine in it.

                                lemme go dig up a pic

                                eh.
                                rather than pull pics and upload with photobucket I just made the album public.
                                Let me know if the link is no bueno.
                                oh,
                                paint horse has my prestige eventer
                                black horse has the pessoa legacy.

                                http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...4505211&type=3
                                Thanks Purp,

                                The link works. What is the seat size of the pessoa? The prestige is a 17" right?


                                Thanks for the info about the Albion kontact at equestrian imports. Since I'm across the border in Canada I'm not sure if she would allow a trial period since Ann may be hit up with duty fees returning it. That price, seat and tree size are certainly appealing though.... (if anyone reading this snaps that saddle up before I have chance to act on it I'll be very disappointed no really I will be) It's definitely worth sending an email off about it.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Karosel View Post
                                  This saddle can be ordered as a "flat" (less deep seat) or a "deep", and with a more forward flap. I'm just not sure how much more forward - a question for the saddle fitter.

                                  This particular saddle in the photos is I believe a "deep" Kontrol. I'm not sure about the flap though. I emailed Albion with the serial # to find out, but I'm still waiting to hear back. I'm not taking this saddle since it's way too wide, but I wanted to know if this saddle had the forward flap version of this model.

                                  I was considering ordering this saddle as a 17.5 inch, flat, forward. I may be able to order the flap even more forward than the normal forward, but I'm not sure. I'll ask the saddle fitter.
                                  That might do the trick for you. My impression of the saddle you are riding in is that it is not forward enough and that the seat is so deep that it rides smaller.

                                  I'm 6' tall and have very long femurs. I have a hard time finding saddles that fit me and prefer the models with very forward flaps and flat seats. It would be best if you could ride in in it before buying since saddle fit/balance is so personal.

                                  Of the Albion line, I would choose the Ultima Kontact myself: very flat seat, very forward cut flap: http://eventingnation.com/sporthorse...mp-saddle.html
                                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Karosel View Post
                                    Anyone have experience with the Pessoa Legacy Event saddles?
                                    I have one and I LOVE it! I'm very much a Pessoa-person, so take that as you will. My saddle fitter doesn't like my saddle very much because the shape of the panels don't distribute over a large surface area, but my pony doesn't seem to mind! I'm pretty short (5'4") and most of my height is in my lower leg, but I jack my stirrups pretty short so I need a pretty forward flap. The seat is pretty flat and the flap is forward without being REALLY forward. I ride in a 16.5" which is a bit snug, but I need to be conscious of saddle size with my pony's very short back.

                                    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...20129294_n.jpg

                                    I don't have any galloping shots from a decent angle, sorry!
                                    "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Karosel View Post

                                      The link works. What is the seat size of the pessoa? The prestige is a 17" right?
                                      The Pessoa is a 17.5
                                      Yes, my prestige is a 17" but people have said that it rides more true to a 17.5".
                                      http://kaboomeventing.com/
                                      http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                                      Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Take a look at the Barnsby new Extreem ITRee for eventing. It has a built-in heating element that softens the tree for adjustments. I'm in AWE!
                                        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                        Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I agree that a larger seat may solve the flap issue since it will afford more room. The photo appears to have you riding up the cantle a bit which will also tip your pelvis forward, affecting your ability to be in a neutral position. If you do shorten your leathers you would go over the flap. Black Country does offer the option of more fwd flaps. They also offer the option of where to add more such as high or low forward. Typically, when we do order that option for someone we send a photo of them mounted in the stock saddle and compare the flap to the face of a clock, for example, 1" more fwd at 3:00. This option does not cost more. Some saddles knee blocks that are placed high on the flap will hit in the wrong place if the saddle is too small in the seat.
                                          Jay McGarry
                                          sms trained saddle fitter
                                          www.trumbullmtn.com
                                          800-442-9672

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