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  • CANTER mare

    Unfortunately I'm in no position to have a horse outside of a lease right now, but on the off-chance that a COTH member picks this mare up, I would be ecstatic to hear how she does in the future. She is an exact (female) clone of my heart horse, who I had to sell several months ago. I get longing pangs just looking at her pictures.


    That being said, I know next to nothing about pedigrees and picking horses off the track, so she could be atrocious to you and I just have a silly superficial attachment.

  • #2
    That is one of best fashionable racing pedigrees for sport that I've seen. I have to agree that I very much like her looks. Very classic distance thoroughbred conformation, plain bay, and she also reminds me very much of my late heart horse.

    Looks like a slight bow on her right front. I wonder if that's the leg with the chip.
    She also looks slightly tied in behind the knee in at least one of the photos. She might also be toed out on all four feet, but it's hard to tell from the photos.
    Last edited by vineyridge; Apr. 6, 2013, 08:39 PM.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    • #3
      Viney: what is it in particular that you like?


      • #4
        Every single horse in the pedigree was very athletic and most were extremely high quality racers. The mare lines are every bit as accomplished on the track as the sires.

        Starting from the Top
        Battoniere--Sire is His Majesty, and the 2nd and 3rd dams were at Paul Mellon's Rokeby. Some of the second dam's offspring raced in France, which means turfy. 3rd dam was also dam of Arts and Letters.

        Mira Femme was an excellent racehorse and was a Cal. bred, Ellen Parker has made her a Reine de Course, but I'm darned if I can figure out why. Dumpty Humpty is Stardust/Hyperion and the rest of his pedigree is very nice as well. Robannier was also California bred, so we're talking Cal breeding for generations in the sire. The top side is as good old style race breeding as you can find, with the one breeding to Northern Dancer (which was done by Paul Mellon) the only concession to modernity on the top. What i like about Mellon is that his horses were bred to be more like European TBs than most Americans now breed. I put the quality of his horseflesh on a par with that of the Aga Khan where breeding is concerned. A lot of thought and planning went into his matings, and fashion was not a big consideration. He raced what he bred.

        On the bottom? Damsire was a son of Our Mims, who was a truly great race mare herself, but not a great racing broodmare. She means Herbager (stamina) and Sweet Tooth, which means that she was half to Alydar. We know Alydar passed on a good jump, and Herbager is a staple line for chasers. He's also the last true stamina horse ever imported for US breeding. While I'm not particularly fond of Seattle Slew for event horses, the dam of Slewvescent makes up for that lack of fondness. Slewvescent was a race horse who never should have been a stallion, but he had the big names.

        On the bottom, tail female shows the loss of the speed that was in Magic and Aspidistra. Mazurka, like those two was Tartan Farms/Nerud breeding, but she, apparently was sold for breeding, since she was unraced. Her daughter, Direwarning was bred by Caveat's owner. Caveat has an excellent sport pedigree with Cannonade (Bold Bidder), a well-proved eventing line; he won the Belmont. He has The Axe (ditto) as damsire; and his female family comes from a half sister of Rosy Legend.

        What is REALLY unusual about this mare's pedigree is that both her Northern Dancer lines come in through mares. I honest don't recall ever seeing that before. My impression is that he was a stinking sire of broodmares, and it's hard to figure out WHY, since, except for his X chromosome (which his daughters would get intact) there is no genetic reason why. forgot Fanfreluche who a superior broodmare and an excellent line for sport

        Reason I like it because she has so many exceptional racehorses from lines that have been equally good for sporthorses.
        Last edited by vineyridge; Apr. 7, 2013, 10:44 AM.
        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
        Thread killer Extraordinaire


        • #5
          I LOVE the look of this little mare. The pedigree is gravy!


          • #6
            What a gorgeous trot! Don't know if I would buy this horse as an eventer, but as a show hunter... now were talking.

            Hope someone takes a chance on the chip. She's quality mare, financially it would be worth it to remove it IMO if the knee looks good otherwise.
            Unrepentant carb eater


            • #7
              I've been watching Catonnier's listing for a while now. If I had any capacity for a second horse I would have gone to see her by now. There is a lot to like with this mare... And then there's that face and soft eye!

              If anyone far away wants a set of eyes on her or more pictures just PM me. I'm less than an hour from GGF.


              • #8
                Agree beautiful mare and great mover


                • #9
                  I noticed this mare a few weeks ago when I was surfing the Canter-CA website- VERY nice mare.

                  I'm probably about 2 months out from a 2nd horse for an eventer/ foxhunter and have my eye on a few of the trainer listings. If she's still available, I may need to take a trip up to the Bay area!
                  ~Living the life I imagined~


                  • #10
                    Well it's a good thing she's in CA and not in the Northeast!
                    I really, really like her.

                    Question: in a case like this (chip in knee), if horse IS sound, leave the chip alone? Or remove it because it will cause problems?
                    Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!


                    • #11
                      Take a hard look at the front legs picture. I see some angular- and rotational deviations at least up to the knee.

                      Sigh-- I'm glad they posted those, but it's tough to put those together with a chip in the knee and promote the horse as ready for a second serious career.
                      The armchair saddler
                      Politically Pro-Cat


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sophie View Post
                        Question: in a case like this (chip in knee), if horse IS sound, leave the chip alone? Or remove it because it will cause problems?
                        Depends on the rads, especially in the knee, as there are some places in the knee you simply can't get the scope. But I am in the remove it if you can camp, myself.

                        Horses with chips are often pretty damned sound until the are not, and once they're lame, there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to make them sound. The chip is in there, wearing away at the cartilage, and while that is happening, the horse is often not very lame. But once the chip has worn *through* the cartilage to the bone, the horse WILL be lame and since you cannot replace that cartilage, will likely be lame for the rest of it's life.

                        If you can remove the chip before much damage is done to the cartilage, the horse usually has an excellent prognosis for future soundness.

                        The trick here is that you can't visualize the damage to the cartilage with a radiograph, so you don't really know what you're facing until you're actually in the joint, looking around with the scope, so it can be a little bit of a gamble. If the horse is currently moving sound, then that does stack the deck in your favor that the current damage is minimal.


                        • #13
                          Trying to push this one back up.

                          Yes, the chip is a concern...but she's had 26 starts and is still sound so I don't think that a little tying in at her knee is that big of an issue for her. It'd be great if it was known if the chip is accessible and could be removed.

                          She's just so good looking and currently moves so well.


                          • #14
                            Wow, really surprised to see this post!

                            I went and saw this cutie just over a week ago because she also looked like a twin of my last horse, who I just loved to pieces.. and she had that same sweet look in her eye.

                            I brought my dad along, who is definitely not a horsey person. But her trainer Jerry was just wonderful, he introduced us to all of his horses and went into great detail about how he chooses his horses and how he takes care of them.

                            We took Catonnier out and she happily grazed away while we talked. She was unbelievably calm. Definitely shattered any preconceptions my dad had about hot TBs!

                            She's had the chip in her knee for over a year and she's sound on it and she's raced the whole time on it.

                            I also like her bloodlines. What struck me as odd though is she has Mira Femme in her pedigree.. and my name is Mira

                            She is very petite though and only 15.2... so she is a little small for me. But as soon as my trainer gets back from a horse show in Woodside she's going to take a look at her and she's definitely on the top of my list of potential horses. I'm just looking for a personal horse at this point.


                            • #15
                              Anybody know which knee has the chip?


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by currycomb321 View Post
                                Anybody know which knee has the chip?
                                My guess is the left one. It looks irregular, and I noticed it before I saw she had a chip in the description.
                                Could just be the picture, though.
                                As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.


                                • #17
                                  Even if she isn't sound, with that pedigree it'd be worth picking her up for a broodmare.

                                  Mi, I hope this little girl works out! I really like what I see in her. Enough that I'd take a chance with that chip.
                                  "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique