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He's not a bad horse...(frustrated and need advice) Update on post #40!

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  • #41
    Glad you've got some answers. Fingers crossed that he'll be your old boy again once he feels better.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by mep0726 View Post
      I asked her if I should put him on ranitidine once we were through with the gastrogard and she said she would try an OTC product first. The supplement she recommended was called Assure (I think) and she said she has had some clients have success with it. I did a google search and a search on here, but didn't find much about it (most people who had used it were using it to try to resolve diarrhea). Anyone know anything about it? I will cross post this on Horse Care as well.

      But hopefully (crosses fingers) we have found the answer to his problems!
      I had my ulcery guy on Assure Guard/Assure Plus and it did wonders for him as far as OTC maintenance goes. He ate better and kept weight on. I really like the product a lot.

      Comment


      • #43
        I have an OTTB that really changes personality when he gets a bellyache.

        This horse will try to shove his own head in the halter if I go out to catch another horse in the pasture, and then get in the way and block the gate. I know not to catch him, if he deliberately runs away...the last time this happened, he likely had a bellyache from dewormer and bute. He was 'difficult' , tried to bite me several times, and was just distracted all day.
        Fortunately, he was fine the next day, and coming right into my lap to be caught and ridden.

        But yes, a BIG change in personality and very different reactions to things the horse has seen regularly in his life, most knowledgeable horse people will go looking for a major pain issue.

        I am also totally bothered by a 'trainer' that will get on and ride anyway, despite rearing and BIG misbehaviors. I can see trying to get firm, seeing if you have maybe spoiled behavior, for a ride or maaayyyybe two. But if the horse gets MORE reactive, the horse is telling you either you don't know HOW to properly lay down the law, or there is a pain/neurological problem that you CAN"T train the horse out of.

        So, to be clear here, the following does not apply if you have a major pain issue.


        As far as getting firm: it can be absolutely difficult to watch, and can look like horsie abuse. Horse tantrums and what it takes to get the horse past them can be very easily misconstrued.
        But what happens within the horse will tell you everything you need to know about whether the method was fair and just.

        I have a fellow who has helped me tremendously with my OTTB. I met him at a Buck Brannaman clinic, where Buck took my horse and laid down the law. It wasn't pretty, but after the first 20 minute fracas, my horse was TOTALLY at peace, and if I had let him, my horse would have gone right to Buck. Same thing with my current helper (I won't call him my trainer, he's more a consultant). There have been a couple of 'ugly to watch' bits, but my horse's attitude afterwards is so totally at peace, and not a shut down, dead-in-the-eyes zombie, either. My horse knows my helper from 200 yards away, and horse would follow him HAPPILY to the end of the earth.

        Ever watch 'Supernanny', where the parents have never been appropriately FIRM with the child? You will probably watch a condensed version of a 3 or 4 hour screaming tantrum meltdown, over bedtime or a 'time out'. The end result is a peaceful, happy child who is happy to be with Supernanny or the parent who laid down the law.


        In finding a trainer that can be a help to the horse, you need to find someone with the skills to be FIRM. It could just as easily be a 'cowboy trainer' as a foxhunter, dressage trainer, cutting horse, walking horse or 5-gaited trainer, whatever trainer...but any majikal purple sticks, draw reins, hock hobbles, leverage devices, drugs or dvds to buy would be a pretty big red flag. The proof of the pudding is how the HORSE feels about the training. And any competent trainer I know, that is effective with getting firm, also knows that a major pain issue CANNOT be trained out of the horse.

        I'm glad you're going with your gut feelings about your trainer, because your HORSE has been communicating HIS gut feelings (no pun intended, with the ulcers) as well. Horses have a very strong sense of justice, and when a trainer or rider isn't being just, the horse will either shut down or get 'crazy and unpredictable'.

        Comment


        • #44
          yay!
          Just a side note. I expected to see a difference right away (with in first 2 weeks) like most people mention on ulcer threads.
          I didn't.
          It wasn't until week 3 for me.

          Week 3 and 4.
          Suddenly horse put on 3 cm on the fattest part of his belly. I measure all of my guys monthly and at week 2 he still had not gained any belly.
          He started growing hair!
          And he has HUGE dapples now.

          He's also eating lots of strange supplements. BOSS, oil, MSM, Amplify.
          Before he wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

          And I've been able to start working in beet pulp.

          I think beet pulp is really good for an ulcery horse--or those pron to ulcers.
          It allows everything to move through the belly more slowly rather than one big fat lump sum pushing it's way through unnaturally.

          Maybe try some beet pulp in the future as well.

          Also, I'm so glad you mentioned an after math supplement. I need to get one wihtin the next week!
          http://kaboomeventing.com/
          http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
          Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

          Comment


          • #45
            Our barn is pretty big on ulcer awareness/prevention. We have horses at our barn on Assure Guard as well as SmartGut. The local vet school really recommends the SmartGut for overall digestive care. Both seem very palatable and none of the horses eating either supplement have ulcers, so I guess they work?

            Comment


            • #46
              Ranitidine will be less expensive and more effective than any supplement.
              Don't be surprised if you need to do gastrogard with ranitidine to see a change.
              Don't assume his ulcers are gone after 28 days, and don't drop off the omeprazole cold turkey.

              Let your pocketbook learn from my mistakes instead of reliving them.
              www.destinationconsensusequus.com
              chaque pas est fait ensemble

              Comment


              • #47
                I looked through all of the smartpak gastro supplements this morning and decided on Smart Gut OR G.U.T. (Uckele).
                I purchased the Smart Gut.

                Those two seemed to have the best ingredients.
                Only issue is they both have licorice root. Which is illegal.

                I'm pretty freaked out over stopping the gastrogard.
                I've been on 1/2 a tube for 10 days or so. Time to go down to 1/4 tube.
                Then to 1/4 tube every other day....and so forth.

                And of course a re-scoping.

                scary business!

                good luck, OP!
                http://kaboomeventing.com/
                http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                  I looked through all of the smartpak gastro supplements this morning and decided on Smart Gut OR G.U.T. (Uckele).
                  I purchased the Smart Gut.

                  Those two seemed to have the best ingredients.
                  Only issue is they both have licorice root. Which is illegal.

                  I'm pretty freaked out over stopping the gastrogard.
                  I've been on 1/2 a tube for 10 days or so. Time to go down to 1/4 tube.
                  Then to 1/4 tube every other day....and so forth.

                  And of course a re-scoping.

                  scary business!

                  good luck, OP!
                  I feed G.U.T for a long time. I called and supposedly the licorice they use is not illegal (and I would expect the same for Smartpak's Gut). Certainly not for USEA but I was told would be fine even at FEI. I wouldn't take the chance at FEI and always switched to GastroGuard which you can use (just have to decare it at the in barns).
                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    I didn't notice SmartGut helping my guy much while I was weaning him off the omeprazole. I think I ordered it twice and then gave up. Right now he is back on the treatment dose of the Abler omeprazole. He is much happier. I'll have to come up with a different maintenance plan.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Smart Gut should not test positive for the licorice root because it has had the Eugenol removed according to this thread: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/ar.../t-358298.html

                      Just in case that's a factor for you!

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Originally posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
                        Ranitidine will be less expensive and more effective than any supplement.
                        Don't be surprised if you need to do gastrogard with ranitidine to see a change.
                        Don't assume his ulcers are gone after 28 days, and don't drop off the omeprazole cold turkey.

                        Let your pocketbook learn from my mistakes instead of reliving them.
                        All of the supplements that I have been recommended as working really well cost just as much (or close enough) to the ranitidine that I think I might just call my vet and ask for a script for the ranitidine. The ranitidine is only like $10 more a month and I would rather be using something that I know works than an OTC supplement that I'm not sure of whether it works or not...

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Glad to read you got an diagnosis. I'd say ANY time a horse starts behaving in abnormal ways, whether under saddle or in the barn, it is NOT because he's "being bad", it is bc he is sick or painful. I'm sorry you got hurt before you could get to the bottom of his misery. I have my ulcer OTTB on Platinum Performance Gastric Support and I *think* it is helping. I have also been advised to put him on AssureGuard. That may be next. I get mine scoped about every 8 months. Another thing you may want to check out for your guy is the possibility he has PSSM (EPSM) A modified diet of low to no starch, no sugar, high fat, alfalfa will be your friend whether he has the condition or not. Good luck.
                          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                            Also, I'm so glad you mentioned an after math supplement.
                            I advise not letting your horse do any math until he is completely cured of his ulcers. Even then, some horses just can't handle the anxiety it produces.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Glad to hear you got him sorted! I didn't have any issues weaning off the Ulcerguard with the ranitidine. And the latter did work. I still needed to give him 1/4 tube of the good stuff each day of a horse trial, but at home the ranitidine was enough to keep everything peachy keen. I just added it to his SmartPak b/c I gave myself blisters crushing tablets, ROFL.
                              Life doesn't have perfect footing.

                              Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
                              We Are Flying Solo

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by alicen View Post
                                I advise not letting your horse do any math until he is completely cured of his ulcers. Even then, some horses just can't handle the anxiety it produces.
                                My horse LOVES math.

                                OP, I'm glad you're getting things sorted out with your horse!

                                Comment

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