• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Curling leg up

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Curling leg up

    Recently, one of my bad habits has re-appeared because I have started riding a new horse. I have a terrible habit of curling my leg up when applying a stronger leg aid. I don't know why, I just do. Today I was trying to get an out-of-shape TB mare to leg yield during my lesson, and my instructor had to tell me repeatedly to not curl my leg up when applying my aids. It seems to get worse when I apply my aids behind the girth. Any ideas on how to fix this? Anyone ever had a similar problem?
    "One reason why horses are happy is because they are not trying to impress other horses."
    "Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction"

  • #2
    Telling someone NOT to do x rarely works. There has to be a statement of what TO DO. How is the leg being used in the first place? The heel is dropped, the calf is therefore 'bulked' so that when it touches the horse, the horse can react. The aid is TIMED/pulsed. Touch/relax. IF the horse does not react, it is combined with a touch from a whip (touch first/vibrate the whip second/strong whack if still no one is at home). IF that progression is kept, it is rarely needed to be advanced after the first couple of 'follow throughs'. And remember for LY, first position the horse, then pulse with the leg as the horse's hindleg CAN move (it is not put it on and holdddd).
    I.D.E.A. yoda

    Comment


    • #3
      No stirrups. Sorry, simple panacea. Curling your leg up is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. With what you describe, you're likely bracing and sitting crooked, twisting your upper body in the process. As you can imagine, this often flows through your seat, reins, and forearms. Tense, unfun situation.

      To readjust to straight and balanced, taking away stirrups will take away your "leverage" and lessens the ability to brace. It may feel more difficult at first as the proprioceptors in your brain adjust, but will become easier for application of clear aids and developing correct response time. In short, you'll sit better, feel more correct, and ride more effectively. Trust me.

      Exercises: Without strirrups and on a long rein, leg-yield at the walk. Then leg-yield sitting trot on a circle. Leg-yield at the canter. See what happens, feel relaxed and connected in your seat and legs, be fully aware of your body positioning and the horse's. Sounds more complex in writing, easy-peasy in real time. Good luck!
      www.glenbaer.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Me me! I do this too. As Glenbaer suggests, I think bracing against the stirrups is part of the problem (for me anyway). Looking forward to more suggestions!

        Comment


        • #5
          Staying loose and 'breathing' through the hips is a first step to begin able to sit and use the leg separately from the body.

          For LY, remember that there is so much more to it than just putting on the leg a little back and hoping it happens. It won't, really. We did lots and lots of connection work before emphasizing any sideways movements. And when we did start that type of work, since the basics were already available to the horse, LY, SI, etc., just fell into place.

          Comment


          • #6
            I do this so bad. My instructor actually took only the curling stirrup away. It takes away the opportunity to brace on the stirrup and makes me stretch down and around his belly more. The added issue it creates (with me anyway) is that I loose my seat connection on that side when I curl up too. It helped me a lot to go without that one stirrup.

            Comment


            • #7
              I also notice I do this more in my dressage saddle than my jump saddle.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yep, guilty here too (especially in my dressage saddle, as kcmel noted). My new trainer really focused on this problem, which helped me address it. She made a point of having me relax my leg and push through my heel. I was only aloud to jump cross rails until I could keep my leg long and relaxed over fences (lol, there's motivations for ya). So, I guess for me the solution was consistent awareness of the problem and focusing pretty much only on it until it disappeared.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A curled leg comes from a tense thigh. Every time you curl your leg think about relaxing your thigh and your weight will drop down your leg and into your heel

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think there can be various causes, thus the various cures given.


                    For me, my legs would curl and I would lose my stirrups, so clearly riding without stirrups wasn't the answer. Tension in the thighs could have been part of where it started - ultimately, I used my quads more than my hamstrings. I did a pilates class with a biomechanics instructor to pinpoint what the problem was and how I needed to fix it. It basically felt like trying to pull my butt cheeks toward the backs of my knees with my hamstrings in order to get legs to hang longer - balancing out the muscle usage.
                    If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                    -meupatdoes

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I find myself curling my leg/lifting my heel when I flat in my jump saddle... my horse is VERY narrow and I have long legs, so it's hard for me to wrap them around his barrel.
                      Road to the T3D
                      Translation
                      fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
                      skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I do this as well

                        My last two lessons (dressage) we were working on it. She has me focusing on opening the back of my knee, which in turn will help relax my thigh.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sink your weight into your heel and turn your toes out to get MORE leg where it is needed. When you leg slides back out of position from the "hotbox" your horse could care less.
                          Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                          Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cyberbay View Post
                            Staying loose and 'breathing' through the hips is a first step to begin able to sit and use the leg separately from the body.

                            For LY, remember that there is so much more to it than just putting on the leg a little back and hoping it happens. It won't, really. We did lots and lots of connection work before emphasizing any sideways movements. And when we did start that type of work, since the basics were already available to the horse, LY, SI, etc., just fell into place.
                            Love this. Yes, increased flexion of the hip will lead to increased flexion of the knee, which will lift the heel/lower leg (what you call "curling"). In an ideal world stirrupless work will strengthen the seat, but often it just exacerbates the underlying anatomical issues associated with increased hip flexion (notably an anterior pelvic tilt). Because I personally have this challenge as well, I will tell you that sitting on a stability ball and pretending to ride, while looking in a mirror, helped me a great deal. The feel I established there translated directly to the tack.

                            Out of curiosity, what is the new horse's conformation like? Is she more narrow/wheelbarrow shaped? Slab sided? That can cause medial hip rotation and increase the gripping/hip flexion. Think "wide" across your sits bones, and open up more from the hip laterally. As you do this, also think about the bottom of your boots about to touch the arena footing.
                            When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I do the same - I try to jam my knee into the block and brace it there with my toes in the iron rather than keeping my ankles soft and weight in my heels, which stretches my inner calf and keeps more contact in my base of support. Two point (and lots of it!) has been a huge help for me; changing diagonals "up" rather than sitting will help, too.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Thanks for all the replies. The mare I am riding is an out of shape, 15 year old TB mare. She's quite underdeveloped in her muscling after a couple years of sitting out at pasture with her previous owner. I wouldn't call her narrow, but I also wouldn't say she is wide by any means.

                                It's weird you mentioned toes out, because our barn recently had a clinic with Nick Novak, the Grand Prix rider, and he told me the same thing. It's hard though for me to point my toes outward, they just naturally fall quite straight.
                                "One reason why horses are happy is because they are not trying to impress other horses."
                                "Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction"

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Kalila View Post
                                  It's weird you mentioned toes out, because our barn recently had a clinic with Nick Novak, the Grand Prix rider, and he told me the same thing. It's hard though for me to point my toes outward, they just naturally fall quite straight.
                                  I badlly sprained my back last June by landing on the left side of my sacrum off my horse. It took a few weeks before I could trust my left leg to hold me up when I tried to stand/walk, and even now it sometimes gives out on me. Pointing my toes out was one of the tips I was given in lessons, and at first I physically could not turn my left toes. If you don't think of it that way, remember that turning your toes comes from the hip - you'll be likely to hurt your knees if you try to do it from there! I have been practicing and practicing, and it takes about 5 seconds when standing to turn out my left foot from the hip - yet seemingly is now easier while riding. I very much have to concentrate on weighting the inside of my foot and turning my toes out from the hip to get it, though. It makes a big difference when I manage!
                                  If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                                  -meupatdoes

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    "Turn your toes out" is a common tip, and easy to use with someone riding a horse and attempting to perceive and implement instruction from the ground (you don't want to give a lecture on anatomy!), but there is more to think about if you really want to correct your issue. The knee and ankle both are hinge joints, but some side-to-side movement is allowed (the range depends on the individual). With this in mind, it's possible to turn out from the toe without fully rotating from the ball-and-socket hip joint, but doing so creates a "kink in the chain" between the ankle and the hip. And no matter how you slice it, rotation in the limb is made possibly ONLY by the hip. So if you think about generating your rotation from the hip - the source, or origin of the movement - and keeping your knee cap and ankle aligned with that degree of rotation, you'll have unobstructed use of your leg and MUCH LESS strain and potential damage on your joints (specifically the knee).

                                    In essence, we should say "turn out from your hip."
                                    When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by netg View Post
                                      I badlly sprained my back last June by landing on the left side of my sacrum off my horse. It took a few weeks before I could trust my left leg to hold me up when I tried to stand/walk, and even now it sometimes gives out on me. Pointing my toes out was one of the tips I was given in lessons, and at first I physically could not turn my left toes. If you don't think of it that way, remember that turning your toes comes from the hip - you'll be likely to hurt your knees if you try to do it from there! I have been practicing and practicing, and it takes about 5 seconds when standing to turn out my left foot from the hip - yet seemingly is now easier while riding. I very much have to concentrate on weighting the inside of my foot and turning my toes out from the hip to get it, though. It makes a big difference when I manage!
                                      I love you.

                                      Try putting a small ball under your left foot. Stabilize yourself on the right by placing your hand on the wall (or a blanket bar in the barn!), and laterally rotate from the stabilizing right hip (you're going for a very slight version of first position, ballet). Laterally rotate on the left hip then, keeping your spine neutral and your gaze forward, roll the ball forward slightly, then return to start position WITHOUT losing that upright neutral position. This will help facilitate movement at the hip. It will be a short range of motion, but should assist in laterally rotating your left hip.
                                      When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Robby - (as one who struggles to keep my weight on the inside of my foot instead of curling outwards onto the outer edge), how do turn your toes out from the hip without rotating your whole leg away from the horse? Help with the mechanics please - in my eternal struggle to keep my leg _on_ and not just flailing wildly about. If it's done right, is it correct to feel a strain in the front/outside of the shin?

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X