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Third bad pre-purchase exam. Should I give up or keep going???

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  • Original Poster

    Per your requests, here are some vids of him walking and trotting in turn-out. I took them yesterday, very quickly, without help. I groomed him until gleaming beforehand. He promptly rolled in mud...thrice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGVNWxoUe9w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZQ3Ej-KUIM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd1MOiycvsI

    Also, I have an apponitment with my absolute favorite vet at my absolute favorite vet hospital scheduled for Tuesday. Fingers crossed. Toes crossed. Eyes crossed.

    Comment


    • I'm no expert, but I'm not seeing any 3/5 lameness.....

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by Heinz 57 View Post
        I'm no expert, but I'm not seeing any 3/5 lameness.....
        That's what I said! And my trainer...and my barn manager...

        Now that the vet pointed it out, I CAN see a dip in his hip when he takes a step, but ONLY from behind. I noted some slight blemishes (scar tissue lump / missing hair) on the pastern of his right hind. Maybe he has a mechnical issue from an old, now healed starting gate injury? Who knows, but all I can say is that none of us saw it or felt it. I know something is there, but it doesn't seem to be bothering him. I'm glad, though, that my vet has an eye for detail and a conservative approach.

        Comment


        • Oh he is so cute! I liked him in the picture from his ad... but I REALLY like him now after seeing him in the videos.

          I can see maybe a slight 'hitch' in his step on the RH - but I was also looking for it, which I think makes a difference. He just looks a little stiff. Definitely not what I would call a 3/5 lameness, even from the little bit you got behind. But, like Heinz, I am no expert...

          I think you made the right choice. To me, it looks like he just needs some TLC bodywork. Hope all goes well with the vet on Tuesday!
          I have Higher Standards... do you?

          "For the love of my horse, I know who I am."

          Comment


          • Aw, he's so cute! I really hope everything works out great for you two!!

            Comment


            • Jumping in here, he looks a "little" short on RH, but thats it. he is a little stiff as others said. Personally, I think if you get a good chiropractor to go over him a few times (like once a week for three weeks), you will have a whole different horse. He does not appear to have a dropped hip, it looks like his pelvis may just be slightly out of alignment (my tb came with that, a good chiro got that part of him straightened out in one visit). And he has a right lead canter. HOnestly he looks really good to me, and I think you will find that you have gotten the steal of a lifetime! He just looks like such a good boy. Good luck on your vet visit.

              Like many here say tho, I personally would do some body work first, very few vets seem to be willing to recognize the benefit of it, and it is much cheaper/safer than joint injections etc.

              Comment


              • have you told us his breeding?

                I would be 3/5 lameness if I were flexed.

                I would enjoy him and never flex him!

                he looks a bit like my OTTB. what is his breeding?
                A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Heinz 57 View Post
                  I'm no expert, but I'm not seeing any 3/5 lameness.....
                  I'm no expert either, but I see a pretty noticeable lameness. If its that pronounced on that footing, I can definitely see why the vet might have put it at 3/5 on hard footing and with flexions.

                  All that said, I really like him, so I think its worth doing some diagnosis work and trying to get to the bottom of it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Toadie's mom View Post
                    If she's willing to let you have him for nothing, why not ask if she'd do a free lease for a couple of months. She gets free training (if you send him back), and you get time to see if he gets better, or worse. That's how I got my Petey . After bringing him home I found out he cribs, had ulcers, had a sarcoid I hadn't noticed before, and he just would not move forward I told the trainer I was going to bring him back, and he said "just give him away." Well, if you really want to "give" him away I'll just keep him. The cribbing is annoying, but I've gotten used to it, and he's only destroyed 2 plastic feeders (they've been replaced by metal ones). Sarcoid was removed 3 years ago, and hasn't returned. Ulcers are an ongoing problem, but treatable. "Forwardness" was strictly a training issue, not unsoundness.

                    I know, not the same as a lameness issue but if you like him that much it might be worth the risk.
                    I really, really, really like this idea!

                    I find it hard to believe that he could be that lame and neither your trainer or you have seen any evidence of it in the week he has been there with you? You are really not out anything but some time if you take the above advise. It may just turn out alright in the end... Buying any horse is really a big gamble, even when they start out with a perfect PPE result.

                    ETA: He is a beauty!

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by Backstage View Post
                      I'm no expert either, but I see a pretty noticeable lameness.
                      On right hind? Elsewhere? Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • I can see it on his right hind in the trot and it most definitely looks like a stifle. I could not see it in the walk. It's subtle and not with every step so I imagine his movement feels more like greenness (poor rhythm) than lameness... but it's definitely there. So sorry. If this can be rehabbed you really need to do that now. He's such a nice horse... it would only be one digital, maybe one ultrasound and you'd have a diagnosis and possibly a therapeutic strategy.

                        I wish I could be more positive. I seem to take stifles more seriously than everyone else here. They're complex joints and need to be looked at carefully when injured. At least you should know what's going on so you don't accidently set him up for more injury and pain. Good luck. Fingers crossed for you and this nice horse.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                          On right hind? Elsewhere? Thanks!
                          Just the right hind, to me. I agree with SEPowell that it seems like the issue might be up near the stifle. That said, I had a mare who managed to fracture the head of her hock and she moved a bit like that. Get the horse to a vet and see what they find.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            Originally posted by SEPowell View Post
                            I can see it on his right hind in the trot and it most definitely looks like a stifle. I could not see it in the walk. It's subtle and not with every step so I imagine his movement feels more like greenness (poor rhythm) than lameness... but it's definitely there.
                            Any experience with stifle injuries? Are they more often major, minor, or 50/50? In your experience, do horses more often come back from them or more often experience permanent lameness? Googling it resulted in just about 10,000 different possibilities, hence the vet exam this Tuesday.

                            Comment


                            • Until you have diagnostics done you'll still have 10,000 answers : ) best of luck with him, stop worrying, enjoy and see what the vets at the hospital say.

                              ETA: Like someone else said I am now looking for a lameness but I can definitely see he is a bit stabby and not tracking up as well on that leg as well. However like I said we know nothing until you get diagnostics done. Otherwise very nice horse.

                              Comment


                              • I also noticed a shortness in his step, but I'm sure it was only because I was looking for it. It was harder to see due to the video . It probably would be easier to see if the camera focused on the whole horse not just the feet. There were a few moments where he was pictured standing still with his rump to the camera where it sorta looked like his right hip was dropped lower than his left.

                                I would use the cash I saved on his purchase price and get a good X-ray and ultra sound of the area just to see what's really going on instead of guessing, which will save you more time and money and stress in the long run. Then, I would definitely see the body workers (chiro/massage). He looks nice and fresh and healthy otherwise.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                                  Any experience with stifle injuries? Are they more often major, minor, or 50/50? In your experience, do horses more often come back from them or more often experience permanent lameness? Googling it resulted in just about 10,000 different possibilities, hence the vet exam this Tuesday.
                                  I haven't owned a horse with a bad stifle but have seen it result in permanent injury. That horse was never properly layed up for his injury in the very beginning, however. Other than seeing a lot of horses at the track with sore stifles and also riding other peoples' horses, I haven't had many experiences with stifles. Sometime along the way I learned to take them very seriously.

                                  Comment


                                  • I really, really hope your vet finds nothing major. Seems like a really nice guy!

                                    I'm in the "I only see something because I'm looking for it" camp. I see a little shortness in striding with the RH but that's it. What a sweet boy.
                                    If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

                                    Comment


                                    • I also see something wonky in the right hind- it isn't shortness per se, just a different way of moving the leg (maybe he swings it out a little bit?). Looks up high to me- sacrum, hip, stifle. The good news is that he's doing lovely clean flying changes both directions, which IME, horses who have something very wrong with them don't do.

                                      Honestly, he's really lovely otherwise, and I'd also start with a good chiro/body worker. From personal experiences on both my horses and myself, they can do wonders releasing areas that are "locked up."

                                      I've had a couple of horses with minor stifle issues (like I said, I don't expect this guy has anything major going on based on his changes, which both of my stifle-y horses had problems with). They are pretty manageable, either through hill-work, joint injections and/or estrone therapy. But really, start with the chiro/body work and go from there.

                                      I'd also like to say that for a free to $2k horse, it is kind of crazy to expect a truly clean vetting *and* a sane/trainable horse. In that rock-bottom price range, you generally need to figure out what you can live with and are willing to manage for issues. I see it over and over, people spending a gazillion dollars on multiple pre-purchases until they've spent their entire horse budget, looking for perfection. No horse is perfect, and digital rads make it a thousand times easier to find potential issues. There are definite deal-breakers (i.e. OCD on a weight-bearing joint surface), but for a nice horse with a good brain, other stuff like iffy hock rads are totally manageable.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Backstage View Post
                                        I'm no expert either, but I see a pretty noticeable lameness. If its that pronounced on that footing, I can definitely see why the vet might have put it at 3/5 on hard footing and with flexions.

                                        All that said, I really like him, so I think its worth doing some diagnosis work and trying to get to the bottom of it.

                                        I didn't say I didn't see ANYTHING just nothing that I would expect MY vet to call a 3 based on the few seconds of trotting you can see here and there.

                                        Comment


                                        • I wouldn't put this horse as a three though. The way he switched leads at the canter and halted from either canter lead isn't something a lame horse does. Well let me back track and say I've never seen a really sore horse canter, change leads and stop like this guy. My mare had her right rear splint bone shattered by another horse kicking her. After she healed you always knew when it was starting to bother her because she stopped totally with her front end and would not pick up the left canter lead.

                                          I think you got a lovely, lovely horse!!!
                                          Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

                                          Comment

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