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Third bad pre-purchase exam. Should I give up or keep going???

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  • I really hope it works out for you. Issues with the RH are fairly common with OTTBs. I have one right now that I'm restarting and he sometimes seems a bit off on his RH too. It's gotten better with work as he's gotten stronger.

    I, personally, use body work/massage before chiro, but maybe that's because I have great bodyworkers in my area and have not been as impressed with the chiro. I think it's important to get the muscles loosened up, otherwise the adjustments don't last as long.

    Acupuncture has helped my horses a lot too.

    Good luck!
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    • Original Poster

      Originally posted by PNWjumper View Post
      What are you treating the thrush with? I went the Tomorrow route in conjunction with some dry powder (No Thrush) that I put on as well. Tomorrow has cleared it up much faster than I expected.

      I'll throw my vote in with the: 1. Treat the thrush 2. Get a chiro (GOOD chiro) 3. Then decide what else needs to be done.
      I'm treating the thrush with a novalssan-like topical steroid, mixed with some other goodies my vet threw in there. My farrier swears by this treatment. I'm treating the topical thrush with Sore-No-More's "The Sauce." It says it is a thrush treatment, but we'll see how it goes. The topical thrush is barely there anyways. Now that he is in a very dry, well-bedded stall and being treated daily, I'm hoping it will resolve quickly. He is barefoot right now, which is actually better for treatment, but I will consider putting shoes on at his next cycle if he's still hoof sore. Also, every day that I pick up his feet, the jerk-back reaction on the right hind becomes less pronounced. Yesterday, he didn't do it at all.

      Comment


      • I had a prelim/Intermediate horse who was always a little lame in his RH. We did a major work up on him, had a bone scan etc. He never got worse and never got really better from it. It didn't stop him from running around Intermediate with me (and a ton of Prelims)--could have gone higher and doing the jumpers with his next owners to the GP level. He was actually a better in full fitness work so I knew his normal...and on we went.
        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
          I had a prelim/Intermediate horse who was always a little lame in his RH. We did a major work up on him, had a bone scan etc. He never got worse and never got really better from it. It didn't stop him from running around Intermediate with me (and a ton of Prelims)--could have gone higher and doing the jumpers with his next owners to the GP level. He was actually a better in full fitness work so I knew his normal...and on we went.
          Super encouraging. After I do the work-up, I'll feel more confident about putting him in work. However, he's already getting super hot on just a few days of stall rest, so I'm not totally sure how to proceed. He doesn't act like he's in any pain. When I turned him out, he would run, do flying changes, kick up both heels, and generally have a grand ol' time. Under saddle, he did not feel lame or unsound at all, and I am generally very sensitive to that especially in a trial horse, where I'm specifically on the lookout for issues. My trainer rode him and didn't feel anything either. We'll just have to see what the vet says.

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          • Do you have to put him on stall rest?
            Certainly don't overwork him but I'd think easy walk, even trot, under saddle would not harm him and, if this is a muscle issue, would be better for him than stall confinement. Or, if you can turn him out as much as possible in a somewhat restricted area (no space for headlong gallops but enough room to walk around).

            Comment


            • Originally posted by fairtheewell View Post
              I just want to say that the reason I suggest bodywork first is that the skeleton is held together by muscles, ligaments, and tendons. A chiro can move bones..a bodyworker/chiro/osteopath/bowen technique person can loosen contracted muscles and allow bones to shift back into their proper functional position. Then, it may just be a series of exercises to build up the appropriate muscles, etc. A vet can prescribe medication or give injections, etc., which may ultimately be necessary depending on what is not functioning properly and getting inflamed. Hence the suggestion to get things adjusted back into position first.
              I think I love you.

              I always skip the vet and go to the bodyworker/chiro/energy worker first because I KNOW he will vet lame and sore. I also know that the vet will give me a long list of rehab/meds/stall rest that needs to happen to fix the stifle/hock/hoof issue when what really needs to happen is to get his pelvis aligned again, his shoulders and C7/T1 released, and his poll fixed. If those are out my horse's spine can't straighten and he will present as extremely lame.

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              • If he was mine...I'd turn him out. Keep fixing his feet and give him some "horse" time. Once I got his feet good and not sore....I'd start riding him a little. Mostly hacking out walking for a few weeks. Get some body work done in this time and then go on from there depending on what is found. But I wouldn't put him on stall rest until we found something that said lock him up.


                Good luck!
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                Comment


                • I would go with bodywork and chiro before I did any ppe type things with him.

                  I have many permanent issues from prior injuries, I am definitely not sound at the walk lol, but consistent chiro work keeps me functional. I state this because most people want to go the bute/stall rest/radiographs etc even when it is not an obvious soft tissue injury. My very good ortho Dr told me years ago that by 30 I would be in a wheelchair and have rods in my back as well as new knees and a fused ankle (yes, I am a walking disaster), I am currently headed out to shovel my 2nd truckload of mulch for the garden. The frequent chiro and massage (once a month or so) keeps me moving quite well and while I realize that I'm not a horse, my point is that this guy might just need an adjustment and he will be good to go. DOn't break your bank!

                  Comment


                  • I've been following this thread and was so thrilled to log on today and see that you decided to take a chance on this guy, BTC. He sounds like a wonderful boy that is a good fit for you, and from everything I've read it seems like he could be easily "fixed" and become a horse of a lifetime. I've got my fingers crossed for you! Please keep us updated--or, better yet, start a blog so we can all follow his progress and see lots of pics/vids.
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                    • Oh, and I agree that if he was with me I would turn him out and let him be a horse. IMO, stall rest is very much overused. Sure, it's necessary for some things (like broken bones), but I think a lot of vets are quick to advise stall rest, when being out and moving around would be better for the horse both physically and mentally.
                      Topline Leather -- Bespoke, handwoven browbands & accessories customized with Swarovski crystals, gemstones, & glass seed beads. The original crystal braid & crystal spike browbands!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by costco_muffins View Post
                        I think I love you.
                        I always skip the vet and go to the bodyworker/chiro/energy worker first because I KNOW he will vet lame and sore. I also know that the vet will give me a long list of rehab/meds/stall rest that needs to happen to fix the stifle/hock/hoof issue when what really needs to happen is to get his pelvis aligned again, his shoulders and C7/T1 released, and his poll fixed. If those are out my horse's spine can't straighten and he will present as extremely lame.
                        I'll 2nd or 3rd this.

                        I always go to chiro/bodywork first as well. I'm fortunate in that my really good chiro is also my vet, so I'm able to have her look through her "chiro eyes" first, but there are times when I bring in another bodyworker before I involve her. Primarily because the other bodyworker is incredible with pelvis/hind end stuff.

                        Having been through a lot of PPEs over the years with a lot of different vet clinics (from small to the biggest in the area) I totally agree that many conventional vets will consistently suggest stall rest, time off, and rehab type work when what really needs to happen is a "whole body" fix via body work.

                        I'm also not a big fan of just turning them out "to be horses" when there's an issue of some sort. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for time off when it's appropriate, but I would rather put mine in a chiropractic regimen supported by super easy flatwork (long, low, stretchy walk and trot work) than leave them to their own devices.
                        __________________________________
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                        Horses in the NW

                        Comment


                        • I have one of those horses that fails a PPE due to grade 3/5 lameness in the front, and is never lame. I love him and he is not for sale, so I paid to have his fronts xrayed. It was making me nuts. You can get him fit and gallop, jump and so on without issues. He can go all day on a hunter pace or any other activity. He is always raring to go.

                          The xrays show 2 tiny dimples (OCD broke off and affixed to the front of fetlock) right about where the vet grabs on for the lameness exam. He bobbles a few steps then is strong. No wonder he fails every PPE.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                            Yes, I have decided to get a lameness exam done first, followed by complimentary therapies if the issue is treatable and those therapies would be appropriate/effective. If the x-rays and ultrasound don't turn up anything major, I will progress to chiro/bodywork. I'm really really hoping that he either has a strained muscle, a pinched something or other, or an alignment issue that can be corrected with strengthening and chiro. I'm hoping that months on the euro-cizer/equi-gym have just created a minor issue that will be resolved with straightness and strengthening. So nervous (and excited)!
                            I think this is an excellent plan of action! Good luck

                            I also have an article about stifle injuries you might find useful--send me your email via PM if you would like to see it!

                            Comment


                            • First off, congratulations!

                              A couple of random thoughts:
                              • I have seen horses get pretty lame from bad thrush. Also pretty reactive about having that foot picked up or messed with as per PNWJumper's comment.
                              • Did the vet do a Churchill test to see if it was hocks?
                              • It sounds like you are in SoCal. Yes, a basic PPE plus hoof radiographs for pedal osteitis could set you back $500.
                              • A friend had a horse in on trial, but the horse had some issues and wouldn't even pick up one hind leg. Her gut said is was probably fixable with some chiro and basic rehab, but she couldn't take the risk. Someone else decided to (after talking to my friend) and the horse was majorly better after one adjustment and a few rounds of good shoeing.
                              • Someone suggested iodine. Not sure we can get that in California because idiots use it to make meth. I have a source, but I am an Evil Chem Prof which helps.
                              The Evil Chem Prof

                              Comment


                              • Pass. It's frustrating I know. The horse has not been in work and is already lame. What do you think is going to happen when he starts jumping?

                                You could maybe take rads of stifle/hock to rule out OCD and if it's mild arthritis you could deal with it (joint injections, pentosan/adequan/legend or whatever). But decide first if you REALLY want to start off with a horse that needs maintenance. It's expensive. Two months of treatment could potentially pay for another basic PPE on another horse.

                                Don't give up. The right one will come along. Don't buy a lame horse, even for $1. You will regret it.

                                Comment


                                • I had a gelding by Pleasant Colony, he was a very good minded horse. He would stand for hours letting my friend "dress him up". He was her model for bridles, blankets, etc. It seemed like he just liked being handled.

                                  But the point of my post is he would hike up his right leg as though I stabbed him in the foot. If I didn't slowly and quietly ask for his foot he would jerk it up high (like hock hgt) and hold it there. Plus if you listened to him trot on pavement that hoof would hit the ground more softly. He never acted sore or showed lameness when I rode him. He is the one that was sold without my consent while on free lease. He is/was a complete sweetheart.
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                                  Comment


                                  • considering diet and EPSSM

                                    My history with a gelding with EPSSM was that is seems to very often start with left hind oddness. When you would ask them to pick up the left hind they would lift it higher than asked and then not rest the leg in your hand but jerk it up and down. then when done slam the foot down. At the time we would then change diet with low carb high fat replacing a grain heavy diet. They would pass a vetting. BUT they would not trot off from a flexion test...often cantering off. and would be difficult during the flexion test. I know now that this was just the begining of awarenes of metabolic problems in horses because I knew I had seen similar issues all along but now we know a bit of what was happening. EPSSM was the beginning of identifying problems with muscle metabolism. RER is another that more directly affects TBs. I am sure more will be identified much as we now have EPSSM I AND II Were I to take on a TB or any horse where discomfort seemed an issue I would begin with diet...many TB trainers are there and are feeding with an awareness of carb metabolism maybe being a problem for TBs but most still feed high oat diets. It is difficult because you have one identifiable issue of thrush but you may want to start looking wholistically right away. PatO

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Meadow36 View Post
                                      Pass. It's frustrating I know. The horse has not been in work and is already lame. What do you think is going to happen when he starts jumping?

                                      You could maybe take rads of stifle/hock to rule out OCD and if it's mild arthritis you could deal with it (joint injections, pentosan/adequan/legend or whatever). But decide first if you REALLY want to start off with a horse that needs maintenance. It's expensive. Two months of treatment could potentially pay for another basic PPE on another horse.

                                      Don't give up. The right one will come along. Don't buy a lame horse, even for $1. You will regret it.
                                      If I've followed the thread accurately the OP has taken the horse and has a return clause should it not work out. And it sounds like after a short time of good care the horse is already showing marked improvement (not really convinced it was a lameness issue as much as a thrush/body sore issue)

                                      Sounds like this guy landed a good home, fingers crossed for years of happy trails
                                      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

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                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by costco_muffins View Post
                                        I always skip the vet and go to the bodyworker/chiro/energy worker first because I KNOW he will vet lame and sore.
                                        OR (ok, I've been spoiled) you could just have an awesome vet that does it all. He always goes over my horses from nose to tail, even when I say, ok, he's a little sore in this hip... Then he stretches and loosens muscles, then he'll adjust anything that needs it, work on the muscles a little more, then prescribe motion and rest (mine live in a pasture, I don't stall). Usually one or two days of just wandering around the pasture, then a couple days of light hacking/stretchy work. Dr. Bob is magic.
                                        Life doesn't have perfect footing.

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                                        • I am dealing with a bit of a mystery lameness with my horse right now. Coincidentally, she's an OTTB and the leg in question is her RH. She was able to narrow it down and I felt better going into the vet appt that it wasn't going to be some massive blind search for an issue.
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