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Third bad pre-purchase exam. Should I give up or keep going???

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  • When you say leg-jerking...is it stringhalt?

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    • I keep thinking "OTTB.... right hind..." Aka: Typical.

      I wonder how he was set up in the eurocizer. Many times they are led in by someone on their left, and either tied on the left or not straightened out - therefore, they are still going crooked as they would on the track when being ponied or on a hot walker which only goes one direction. I would expect an OTTB who hasn't been properly worked on straightness to be weak on the right hind and not use it as well as the left hind.

      Heck, my TB requires extra care to strengthen that right hind each time we advance to doing anything more difficult, no matter how straight he is when we start on a next step in his training. He's sound - but most definitely naturally uneven, made worse by uneven development and work in his early years.
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      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by fairtheewell View Post
        When you say leg-jerking...is it stringhalt?
        No. It's kind of stringhalt type action, though, when you first pick up his right hind. It doesn't happen when in motion, though, and it isn't stuck that way. As soon as he relaxes, his leg drops to a normal position. It feels more like he's jerking away from what he knows will cause pain. Although, yesterday when I was treating his thrus he didn't jerk at all when I asked for the right hind. I did notice standing behind him while he was munching on some hay that his right hip is every so slightly dropped to the right when resting. He doesn't point the foot, though.

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        • I just want to say that the reason I suggest bodywork first is that the skeleton is held together by muscles, ligaments, and tendons. A chiro can move bones..a bodyworker/chiro/osteopath/bowen technique person can loosen contracted muscles and allow bones to shift back into their proper functional position. Then, it may just be a series of exercises to build up the appropriate muscles, etc. A vet can prescribe medication or give injections, etc., which may ultimately be necessary depending on what is not functioning properly and getting inflamed. Hence the suggestion to get things adjusted back into position first.

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          • Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
            Also, that particular toe was much more scuffed than the others, which leads me to believe the issue was there before his arrival.
            My mare with the stifle issue wore the toe on that leg back past the white line. The farrier commented on it every time she was trimmed.

            Following IRAP, no more wear.

            Did the vet find effusion in the joint?

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            • Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
              No. It's kind of stringhalt type action, though, when you first pick up his right hind. It doesn't happen when in motion, though, and it isn't stuck that way. As soon as he relaxes, his leg drops to a normal position. It feels more like he's jerking away from what he knows will cause pain. Although, yesterday when I was treating his thrus he didn't jerk at all when I asked for the right hind. I did notice standing behind him while he was munching on some hay that his right hip is every so slightly dropped to the right when resting. He doesn't point the foot, though.
              I ride a cross that has pretty awful hind legs. Practically straight as a post, string-halty type of "can't hold the leg for the farrier" situation and stiff as a board to ride. She's a great jumper, a homebred, and would likely NEVER, in a million years, pass any kind of vetting. I'm pretty sure she has arthritis in every joint in her left hind leg. I'm suspicious she was born this way....

              I ride a second (homebred) cross that is a fantastic little athlete. Jumps great, very supple and agile, but is a scaredy-cat, so her main occupation is dressage. All four of her legs are crooked. She toes in fantastically up front and toes out fantastically behind. I would never buy a horse with legs like hers. But the thing has never been lame a day in her life. Barefoot with feet like iron. Never worn shoes.

              Then again... I've ridden horses that passed their prepurchase with NO issues whatsoever, but were never really sound. Not really lame, but they could not work/do the job and nobody could really figure out why.

              I go by the 'if the horse does the job' rule. Clear xrays/flexions/vetting do not mean sound horse, and messy xrays/flexions do not mean lame horse.
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              • Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                No. It's kind of stringhalt type action, though, when you first pick up his right hind. It doesn't happen when in motion, though, and it isn't stuck that way. As soon as he relaxes, his leg drops to a normal position. It feels more like he's jerking away from what he knows will cause pain. Although, yesterday when I was treating his thrus he didn't jerk at all when I asked for the right hind. I did notice standing behind him while he was munching on some hay that his right hip is every so slightly dropped to the right when resting. He doesn't point the foot, though.
                A friend was at my place when I was doing my TB's thrush treatment routine the other day. I asked him to pick up his right hind and he jerked it way too far up and out. She kind of knowingly nodded and said, "looks like a stifle issue." Nope, just my guy being the wussiest of wusses about having his feet dealt with. Doesn't help that he has permanent "scab" things on that leg that I pick at more than he would like.

                So just here to say that my guy does that too, and it's definitely in anticipation of pain.....aaaand because he's kind of an ass and would feel totally justified in kicking me or anyone else.

                What are you treating the thrush with? I went the Tomorrow route in conjunction with some dry powder (No Thrush) that I put on as well. Tomorrow has cleared it up much faster than I expected.

                I'll throw my vote in with the: 1. Treat the thrush 2. Get a chiro (GOOD chiro) 3. Then decide what else needs to be done.
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                • I have to agree with what you're thinking of doing. ie. treat the thrush first before doing anything else. And I agree with other posters that in the mean time a bodyworker/chiro can do wonders.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                    No. It's kind of stringhalt type action, though, when you first pick up his right hind. It doesn't happen when in motion, though, and it isn't stuck that way.
                    Can you get any videos of him W/T/C on the longe line or W/T in hand on hard ground? Backing up in hand? How about some pics so we can look at his body symmetry, feet, and maybe someone can spot something new and/or offer some suggestions.

                    IME, a vet's opinion/diagnostics, followed by complimentary therapies (chiro, massage, accup.) is a better use of your money but it's totally up to you.
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                    • A good chiro can do wonders, seriously.

                      I agree that some time off followed by being put back to light work is something to pursue. If you have a good gut feeling about this guy, trust it. Get him adjusted at least once before you make up your mind. You never know what is out of whack and causing pain.
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                      • inquiring minds would like to see a video of said horse

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                        • Original Poster

                          Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                          Did the vet find effusion in the joint?
                          Nope, no effusion in the join. No sensitivty to palpation, either, which is a bit strange. I'd expect him to be tender, but nope. No heat, swelling, muscular asymmetry, or atrophy.

                          I'm wondering if it's an old injury and now it's healed with his hips out of whack. Now that the vet pointed it out, I definitely see it from behind when he's standing square. Hip dropped to the right. He doesn't seem to be in pain, at all, and like I said the lameness isn't visible in his movement from the side. To my eye, at least, he steps evenly behind. No short, stabby stride on the right hind. He has gorgeous floaty trot and takes both leads willingnly at canter (haven't cantered under saddle, yet, so we'll have to see...). No noticeable issues even on the lounge in a fairly tight circle.

                          I did some preliminary "dropped hip" research online and it looks like it could be a million things. I'll just have to vet him and get a good chiro/bodyworker out.

                          But, on the new news front, I talked with the seller and as of today I will be the proud new owner of the most beautiful, sweetest, lame, free horse. Oh my gosh, here we go...

                          We are building a return policy into the purchase paperwork. Still super nervous, but he's worth the gamble...I think...ahhhhhhh!

                          Comment


                          • Video would be very helpful. If his hip is slipping and no one noticed i would be hard pressed to say he is a 3. That should be pretty noticeable for anyone around horses.

                            Only you know what you want and/or can do here. We can offer opinions and our experiences but you are the only one that knows what you can and want to do. I have a farm so I may would take a chance on him ESP if I had another horse right now to ride. For you and having to board a horse you have to keep in mind if this isn't something easily fixed or something that will never be ok you have a pasture ornament starting off from day one. Horses are a risk and you know that first hand. You could buy that sound, vet checked great horse and it be lame in a week, it happens. But for someone that doesn't have much of a budget left and don't have their own property in case this doesn't work out it's a bigger risk. I'd maybe spend 300 and concentrate on that area in the backend and back legs and at that point if I couldn't find the issue I'd send him back and recoup a few months.
                            Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                            • I think we posted at the same time lol. Good luck with him
                              Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                              • Original Poster

                                Originally posted by iluvponies View Post
                                inquiring minds would like to see a video of said horse
                                Yes! Now that he's mine, I am comfortable posting pics/vids. When he was only on trial, I didn't want to put up more than his ad, just in case it would offend the seller. I'm not totally sure how to link to vid, but I'll play around with it today or tomorrow.

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                                • Original Poster

                                  Originally posted by WW_Queen View Post
                                  IME, a vet's opinion/diagnostics, followed by complimentary therapies (chiro, massage, accup.) is a better use of your money but it's totally up to you.
                                  Yes, I have decided to get a lameness exam done first, followed by complimentary therapies if the issue is treatable and those therapies would be appropriate/effective. If the x-rays and ultrasound don't turn up anything major, I will progress to chiro/bodywork. I'm really really hoping that he either has a strained muscle, a pinched something or other, or an alignment issue that can be corrected with strengthening and chiro. I'm hoping that months on the euro-cizer/equi-gym have just created a minor issue that will be resolved with straightness and strengthening. So nervous (and excited)!

                                  Comment


                                  • woohoo! I can't wait to hear updates. My guy has SI/muscle issues in his hind right. When he's out of work he is very visibly hitchy in his hind right. As long as he is in work he is fine. Pentosan did work wonders and I highly highly recommend an Osteopath person over Chiro or massage. With both Chiro and massage the effects only lasted a week or so but the Osteopath body work seemed to "unlock" whatever the issue was and it lasted for months. If you need suggestions to slowly bring him back to work after you have your diagnosis PM me I have definately been through that a time or two.

                                    Comment


                                    • Keep looking. It will happen eventually.
                                      But be more aware of what is going on in those PPEs.

                                      the first horse could have been cut off right after flexions and pictures of that bad joint.
                                      No need for an $800 bill

                                      The second horse only need rads of the front feet. How did you end up dishing out $800 AGAIN?

                                      The 3rd horse you cut off quickly. That's how a PPE should roll.
                                      It's the sellers job to send out a sound horse. Not for you to diagnose their unsound horse.
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                                      • Original Poster

                                        Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                                        Keep looking. It will happen eventually.
                                        But be more aware of what is going on in those PPEs.

                                        the first horse could have been cut off right after flexions and pictures of that bad joint.
                                        No need for an $800 bill

                                        The second horse only need rads of the front feet. How did you end up dishing out $800 AGAIN?

                                        The 3rd horse you cut off quickly. That's how a PPE should roll.
                                        It's the sellers job to send out a sound horse. Not for you to diagnose their unsound horse.
                                        Yes, I should have stopped the first one after x-rays of the front fetlock. I should NOT have progressed to the neck. Even then, my bill would have been $600.

                                        On the second one, I stopped as soon as we found the pedal ostitis, but the bill was still $550 with vet call, PPE fee, and multiple rad views. I should have been clearer about starting with only the pedal ostitis view first, as I already suspected that would be the issue. I spent $150 on shavings and board during her trial and $75 to haul her to my barn for the trial. Oops. Should probably have vet checked before a trial, since she was risky.

                                        The third one was $87. I've gotten smarter, lol.

                                        And stupider, apparently, since I'm taking a gamble of a free horse that's lame. I would normally advise someone against this, but since I was going to stop looking anyway at this point, I figure it doesn't hurt much to give him a shot. I'll roll the dice here since I don't have too much left to lose.

                                        Comment


                                        • Just want to say: GOOD LUCK!

                                          My first OTTB was an absolute mess, the chiro was the largest factor in his 180 degree turnaround. Unfortunately, he was a level 5 headshaker, which wasn't seen in the vet check because he's seasonal, and I vetted him in winter. Retired at 6.

                                          Now, my second OTTB was certainly not a mess, but my trainer felt he was lame RH when I got him. I think it is a common racehorse reality and spending time building up his fitness has changed his movement dramatically. Hopefully you will have this outcome!

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