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selling horses UGH ;-(

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  • #41
    Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
    Bares repeating. There is a BIG difference in these two things. Just because someone has 10k to spend and your horse is marketed at 10k does not guarantee that they think it is WORTH spending 10k on. In which case, the buyer has 2 choices: walk away or make an offer. If they make an offer, the seller then has three choices: say no and walk away, accept, or counter.

    Really....we make it all rather complicated sometimes!
    This. I have nothing against you JBRP, I understand why you do it, but in general I'd be very leery of a trainer (unknown to me at this point) asking what my budget is right off the bat. Seen too many of the old "oh, you have $5k to spend, here's a nice horse for $6k negotiable [that was priced at $2k before you came along with your big wad of cash]" lines, especially with the average, starry-eyed adult amature. And those lines are even easier to feed to people when there are no "advertised" prices.

    BY FAR I prefer email. If you want me to make a phone call, I either have to do it on my lunch hour or you're going to have to wait until 9pm at night or later (or until the weekend). And I'm bound to forget some things, so having a written record of the information in the seller's own words is very helpful. Less chance of he said/she said later if a problem arises.

    Comment


    • #42
      Well Heinz my prices are actually published on my website as well as Ads on SportsHorse and Dreamborse...for me it's not about bait and switch for,which I have no reputation for doing...It's more not spending a lot of time showing horses the customer clearly cannot afford. By knowing what the working budget is makes it far easier to steer the person onto the right page. I will be the first person to tell,the customer I don 't have what they need..I don t believe in forcing a square peg into a round hole nor do I feel the need to inflate a price because they have it. To stay honest and have integrity as a horse seller is important. They are fragile breathing beings with a mind and quirks all of their own which makes selling them tough enough. Just because you have $10k to spend does not mean I suddenly have a $10k horse lurking in the barn for sale. if I did his Ad s would be upfront and center.
      I am old school enough to want a conversation...budget ,riders abilities, who the,trainer will be, do they keep at home or board? How tall they are? Because a 5'2 rider with a Budget of 4500. might want to try a 7500 16.2 horse when a 15.3 horse for 3500 might be sitting here as yet not advertised.

      I don t Put prices on FB.. I provide pictures and usually a short video clip age sex accurate height and good brief history. Should a buyer have a serious interest they can PM and set up a time to call. 99% of the people will know my prices are usually VERY reasonable.
      So far it seems to be working just fine my sale numbers for the 3 months of 2013 are 50% of my usual yearly totals which run 20 to 25 annually and those numbers have been holding for the last 8 years give or take a few. I have only been doing FB about 1 year. And the FB horses with no prices get sold and everyone who calls get told the same price.

      I also know another well respected OTTB reseller Does Not put her prices on FB either.

      FB is a great social media outlet to let everyone know\see what you have and how they are doing. I will post prices on Advertising sites like OTTB connect which I view as another advertising site like Dreamhorse in a way.

      There is no wrong and no right way....It's all about what works best for you and your product.

      To infer you feel it's wrong or you wouldn't do your business this way is totally your prerogative. It so far is working for me just fine and I have no problem s with messaging and email but at some point there has to be a voice to voice conversation.

      Twice I was burned by someone who only emailed and messaged me with contracts exchanged assurance of closure Vettings arranged shipping arranged a guarantee of funding and then zip zero nada at the last possible minute.

      Several COTHers have bought from me some never ever came to see horse just bought off video and photo..but we talked on the phone...some drove hours and All night to see alot of horses but we knew the price range and no time was wasted on what they couldn't g afford.

      Time is money and gas is expensive. Phone call is cheap...

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
        Well Heinz my prices are actually published on my website as well as Ads on SportsHorse and Dreamborse...for me it's not about bait and switch for,which I have no reputation for doing...It's more not spending a lot of time showing horses the customer clearly cannot afford. By knowing what the working budget is makes it far easier to steer the person onto the right page. I will be the first person to tell,the customer I don 't have what they need..I don t believe in forcing a square peg into a round hole nor do I feel the need to inflate a price because they have it. To stay honest and have integrity as a horse seller is important. They are fragile breathing beings with a mind and quirks all of their own which makes selling them tough enough. Just because you have $10k to spend does not mean I suddenly have a $10k horse lurking in the barn for sale. if I did his Ad s would be upfront and center.
        I am old school enough to want a conversation...budget ,riders abilities, who the,trainer will be, do they keep at home or board? How tall they are? Because a 5'2 rider with a Budget of 4500. might want to try a 7500 16.2 horse when a 15.3 horse for 3500 might be sitting here as yet not advertised.

        I don t Put prices on FB.. I provide pictures and usually a short video clip age sex accurate height and good brief history. Should a buyer have a serious interest they can PM and set up a time to call. 99% of the people will know my prices are usually VERY reasonable.
        So far it seems to be working just fine my sale numbers for the 3 months of 2013 are 50% of my usual yearly totals which run 20 to 25 annually and those numbers have been holding for the last 8 years give or take a few. I have only been doing FB about 1 year. And the FB horses with no prices get sold and everyone who calls get told the same price.

        I also know another well respected OTTB reseller Does Not put her prices on FB either.

        FB is a great social media outlet to let everyone know\see what you have and how they are doing. I will post prices on Advertising sites like OTTB connect which I view as another advertising site like Dreamhorse in a way.

        There is no wrong and no right way....It's all about what works best for you and your product.

        To infer you feel it's wrong or you wouldn't do your business this way is totally your prerogative. It so far is working for me just fine and I have no problem s with messaging and email but at some point there has to be a voice to voice conversation.

        Twice I was burned by someone who only emailed and messaged me with contracts exchanged assurance of closure Vettings arranged shipping arranged a guarantee of funding and then zip zero nada at the last possible minute.

        Several COTHers have bought from me some never ever came to see horse just bought off video and photo..but we talked on the phone...some drove hours and All night to see alot of horses but we knew the price range and no time was wasted on what they couldn't g afford.

        Time is money and gas is expensive. Phone call is cheap...
        ***************

        These are my feelings!!! I ask what the buyer is looking for...training/discipline specifics as well as height of horse desired, sex, and color dislikes and desired price range (NOT budget). Why waste a whole conversation about horses that are 17 hands when the rider is 5'2" or geldings when buyer wants a mare...or $10k horses when they are looking to stay under $1,500!! I have a customer right now wanting to know if a specific horse I have for sale is suitable for a 12 year old...well I need to know what level the 12 year old rides at...that is more important info than how my horse rides...that is not advertised as a child's mount. I gladly e-mail and send our web site and videos, but I insist on a phone call before I make appointments to show horses. I've found that people will "no show" more often with an e-mail appointment than a phone call appointment. My prices ARE negotiable, but I consider a 10-15-20% below asking price reasonable...not 65% on an $9500 "made", sound horse. I consider that a bit rude!!
        www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
        Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by crosscreeksh View Post
          ***************

          These are my feelings!!! I ask what the buyer is looking for...training/discipline specifics as well as height of horse desired, sex, and color dislikes and desired price range (NOT budget). Why waste a whole conversation about horses that are 17 hands when the rider is 5'2" or geldings when buyer wants a mare...or $10k horses when they are looking to stay under $1,500!! I have a customer right now wanting to know if a specific horse I have for sale is suitable for a 12 year old...well I need to know what level the 12 year old rides at...that is more important info than how my horse rides...that is not advertised as a child's mount. I gladly e-mail and send our web site and videos, but I insist on a phone call before I make appointments to show horses. I've found that people will "no show" more often with an e-mail appointment than a phone call appointment. My prices ARE negotiable, but I consider a 10-15-20% below asking price reasonable...not 65% on an $9500 "made", sound horse. I consider that a bit rude!!
          I think you might be missing at least part of the point.

          Obviously, a wise seller should ask questions. I wouldn't show a horse to someone until I had some answers regarding things like their riding ability. And if you have numerous horses available, by all means, get information regarding the buyer's likes, dislikes and preferences.

          But there is a difference between asking if someone has a preference re: height or sex and asking them the specifics of their budget. You might be an honest seller, but many aren't, and I don't think it is a really a fair position to put the buyer in. I certainly know that I feel uncomfortable with the question as it isn't anyone's business but my own (and my trainer's if I'm shopping with assistance).

          Of course, I have been asked if a horse is in my price range and I have no compunction about saying that it is not. If its close or at the very upper end, my answer is likely to be more nuanced. Bottom line - at the end of the day, I need to look out for my pocket book and disclosing my budget puts me at a real disadvantage is most negotiating situations.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #45
            Thanks for all your responses. As it turns out, the prospective buyer told our trainer that she had mostly looked at horses that were stepping down the levels not going up. ALso, said that she was the best trained that she tried and the nicest horse..
            We have a young horse that has a bright future ahead of her and she has done well with what we have done so far.
            I have no preference when comparing horses. I do not think an OTTB is worth less then a WB if they can do the job asked. BUT if the horse is inspected and accepted into the mare book that is a plus. To me anyway...
            The price was on her ads so there was no question there, always negotiable to a point but not 65% off the asking.
            The sad thng is the trainer thought they were a good match but oh well, on to the next....
            I have never sold a horse before and I doubt I ever will again! not for me..Thank god I have a trainer doing it all...
            Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
            Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
            "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post

              To infer you feel it's wrong or you wouldn't do your business this way is totally your prerogative. It so far is working for me just fine and I have no problem s with messaging and email but at some point there has to be a voice to voice conversation.
              It would do you a great deal of justice to read my post again, starting with the sentence about how I have nothing against you AND I understand why you do things the way you do - but IN GENERAL would be leery of telling an unknown salesperson my top dollar right off the bat. Just because you tell me you wouldn't mark up the price doesn't mean the other 100 sellers out there wouldn't - and how am I to know you from them? Do I just take your word for it and hope for the best? I've seen too many people get duped.

              You jump to being defensive (unnecessarily, IMO) every time someone doesn't agree 100% with you or the way you do things, even just on your opinion of a CANTER horse. It's not personal, and I'm not saying you are wrong or that your business isn't successful, but that I as a BUYER would be greatly turned off by you asking what my top dollar is right off the bat. Doesn't mean you don't have nice horses or fair prices, it's just not how I prefer to do business as a buyer. Given that I'm located quite far away from you and there are plenty of OTTB's to choose from between here and there, it is unlikely that we will ever do business - but I'm not the only person that has expressed that sentiment on this and other threads (see Backstage's post, above, for example).

              I see your FB posts all the time, as I followed your page. I've never been to your website, didn't even know you had one, I was only commenting on the "I don't put prices on fb ads".

              Comment


              • #47
                Once when I was asked what my budget was, I got a bit peevish and wrote what I was willing to spend on a very precise and specific horse (my dream horse!!). The breeder responded "good luck with that" (do I sense sarcasm?) Well I vetted 3 horses that were 95% of what I had stated and each horse had horrible vet checks. Ended up teaching myself how to search horse ads in other languages and damned if the universe did not produce the dream horse I had snarkily told the impertinent breeder I wanted. ...careful what you wish for...

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
                  ...I also will not FaceBook prices....
                  If you're going to say on FB that your horse is for sale - why the heck not include the price? Do you not know until you know who's asking? Is it going to change?

                  Why play games? Just post the price.
                  If I see something advertised for sale on FB - or anywhere - and I ask about price in the same venue that the sale ad is in, and I get an answer back that is "call" or "Please private message me" - I'm done.
                  Right there.
                  I don't care how good it is, how long I've looked, how bad I want it. There is NOTHING that is worth playing games over. And if you can't give a straight answer to the most BASIC of questions when you have something for sale - I am not wasting my time on you.
                  What else are you not going to give a straight answer about?
                  What other info am I going to have to go out of my way to dig up? There are other horses.

                  Not saying that this person operates this way. But these are my feelings about it as a buyer. Is there really any reason at all to post a sale ad without a price? If you're trying to make it easier for the buyer and not bait and switch - then it's easier for me to see "Hey, perfect! I'll call right now", "Wow, this horse is a bargain." Or 'Wow, that horse is way out of my budget."
                  Last edited by Riverotter; Mar. 27, 2013, 05:07 PM. Reason: clarification

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    River trotter so sorry you feel it's a game....I know there is another VERY popular re seller who also does not make her prices public...It's not a game.
                    I will share every single detail including a price but will not Facebook text twitter prices. if its a client I do regular business with or a trainer I know I will share a price in a text or personal message. But I find if someone can t make a phone call that is just as offensive.

                    Facebook to me is a place to say look who just got here..or look at this cute jump or fancy trot. I find this very interesting that not posting a price on FB is such a turn off. It's one thing if you know who you are talking to but quite another from a public page that does not require a "friend" request to have a conversation.

                    If its to hard to pick up the phone or send an email what a shame.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I can't see how posting a price on a FB ad is any different from posting a price on any other sale ad. The reason people want a phone call is that they want to bend your ear, charm you, and convince you how fabulous they and their horse is.

                      Sellers can save themselves and buyers time by simply listing the price. If you want $10,000 for the horse and I am looking for a cheaper horse, I don't want to waste your time or mine with a phone call.

                      I've run into this sales tactic in plenty of other scenarios. Most recently I made an internet inquiry to a new sales horse site and asked if they had any references from my local area. They responded with a phone call. From OVER SEAS. They called twice. But they refused to answer my question by email. They wanted to give me a sales pitch.

                      I don't think a seller needs to engage in an endless barrage of single line inquiries from potential buyers. But LISTING the price in the sale ad is perfectly reasonable. NOT listing the price is a way of getting the buyer on the phone so they can be schmoozed.

                      This is how good sellers make sales. They get you dancing to their tune. It is a common tactic. I've encountered it when shopping for arena footing and plenty of other things.

                      Yes, folks who are good at it find it does work for them pretty well!
                      "Friend" me !

                      http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I think what some are having a difficult time understanding is what possible above-board benefit the seller derives from electing not to post prices on FB. I agree with Isabeau that FB seems no different than any other web marketing tool. Given this, I would think that if a seller wants to weed out tire kickers with champagne tastes and beer budgets, posting prices (or price ranges) for sales horses is a pretty good way to do it. As a buyer, I value complete transparency because I believe it protects my interests. It's tough for me to understand a seller choosing not to post prices as an arbitrary preference. It's a conscious choice, so there must be a reason why. If the reason isn't to create vagueness and margin for mark-up or trainer kickbacks, it would help if I could understand what leads a seller to believe that such an approach is beneficial to him or her.
                        "With mirth and laughter, let old wrinkles come" (Shakespeare).

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Well, what JBRP is doing obviously works for her! But I also like to see prices on facebook. My trainer often has clients looking for prospects, or I have friends looking, and I will share a listing I see on FB that looks interesting. But rarely if there is not a price listed. Since I am not a serious buyer myself I certainly wouldn't bother to call!

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
                            I can't see how posting a price on a FB ad is any different from posting a price on any other sale ad.
                            You've hit the nail on the head. If seller will disclose price in an email or text message or private message or phone call and it appears on ads in other media, this makes little sense.


                            And to the OP, sorry about the hijacked thread. Try not to be too offended by the lowball offers!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              As a buyer, I like having prices posted. Twice, I thought I had negotiated a price. When it came time to give over the check, the sellers asked for more money than I thought we had agreed upon. Recently, I was with a friend who was looking at a horse. We had the email from a few days before, listing the horse's price. The seller then stated the horse was a different amount, $2,000 more than what we had in writing from her. If my friend had decided upon that horse, I would have whipped out the email. Still, I would have been happier to have the price posted on her website or Facebook.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                I've followed JBRP's FB page, and looked at her website too... my take on the lack of prices on the FB page is that these are the newest horses she has, and they may not even have a price yet, or the price may be rapidly changing (i.e. the horse comes in, looks like a nice horse = price number 1, horse gets restarted under saddle, everybody is wowed by its temperament = price upgrade. Horse starts jumping = price upgrade. and so on)

                                I don't think there is anything deceitful about this, it is actually less confusing for the buyer to find out the absolute current price, rather than something that is a couple weeks old. It seems that the ones that make it to the website are the ones that have had enough retraining to establish a solid price point.

                                I suppose she could increase her prices off the bat to accomodate for this, but I think that the lucky few to have purchased her horses within hours of being posted on FB for sometimes shockingly low prices would disagree with that

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by acottongim View Post
                                  As for payments... I NEVER take payments on a horse unless the horse stays on my property, contract signed, and insurance on the horse is taken out. PERIOD.
                                  Where were you 5 years ago??!!! I let my mare go on payments in an eerily similar situation and man did it blow up. Payments stopped, they got behind on board, and I rescued my own horse off equine.com from the free section. They were good people but good people often don't make good decisions and my sensitive girl nearly ended up in the hands of whatever joker showed up with a trailer first.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Bingo eventer 215. And my Webb site can always be checked . If a buyer is put off and can t call I am sorry to have missed an opportunity.

                                    AKB I use a Buyer/Seller contract something like in real-estate that both parties sign before proceeding to a Vetting. Laying out everyone's obligations and the agreed price. Also for a customer coming a long distance who is worried about a price jack or having the horse sold out from under them it provides a measure of insurance horse will be there for them to try at their price, but builds in an out for
                                    Them should they not like horse.
                                    Which is why I like a phone call to confirm and an email so I can send them direct from my computer a private and personal communication.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      As a buyer, I'd want to see a price. Either a number or a range. I don't want to waste *my* time pursuing horses that are too expensive for me to buy. Being really vague about pricing just makes me think something shady might be going on, and even if *you* are an honest seller, so many are not!
                                      You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                      1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Judybigredpony's pricing practices don't bother me at all because th prices are easily available on her website.

                                        However, I would caution shoppers from spending a lot of time going to see horses without having the price confirmed in writing somewhere. I won't drive a long way to see a horse where the price has only been disclosed by phone because I don't want to get there, have the horse go really well for me and suddenly the price is higher because the horse is now apparently "farther along in its training." I learned the hard way on that one -- it was "farther along" because it looked nicer when I sat on it. Whatever, you can't raise the price on me because I ride your horse decently and popped it over a couple of jumps to see what it does -- that was not "training"!

                                        I don't find this much of a problem with professional resellers like JBRP, it's the backyard bargains where this is most likely to happen.

                                        If you need to, send an follow-up email after the phone call asking seller to confirm that their asking price is $X and get a response before you spend a lot of time and effort on a purchase.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60

                                          If you need to, send an follow-up email after the phone call asking seller to confirm that their asking price is $X and get a response before you spend a lot of time and effort on a purchase

                                          Always...

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