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New Project--how much will it cost (years, $)to get a horse to 4* in the US or Canada

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  • New Project--how much will it cost (years, $)to get a horse to 4* in the US or Canada

    Has anyone already done this?

    I'm going to try and do it for each level of categorized rider and also for uncategorized ones.

    Should I include BN and N, or just start with training? I'm also going to assume that every competition entered produces either an NQR or a MER.

    I'll also need help with average transportation costs (per mile) and rider living costs per event.

    It should be an interesting exercise.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

  • #2
    Probably cost too much.....for us Accountant types would rather not know, too depressing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Breaks my number one rule as the owner of an upper level eventer. Don't do the math!
      Last edited by pegasusmom; Mar. 18, 2013, 03:55 PM.
      www.amiddle-agedmadwomantakesthereins.blogspot.com

      www.pegasusridge.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Too many variables, depending on where they live for access to events and trainers, is the horse OTTB or purpose-bred, rider experience, etc etc....

        Jennifer
        Third Charm Event Team

        Comment


        • #5
          Unfortunately the search function in this "newer version" of COTH doesn't work that well - I know we hashed this out a couple years ago. (Obviously, not with the new Categorization rules, but that doesn't apply to figuring out costs for a horse going from Novice to 4* anyway.)

          A long time ago I figured out what I'd put into my 2* horse. I did not include meals (have to eat anyway), lessons while I was a WS, board for several years (he lived at my parents' free of charge), and I didn't have to pay for a truck/trailer or the insurance (parents'). Entries, stabling, fuel, memberships, clinics, vet bills, and truck and trailer maintenance/repairs still came to about $43,000. I can't remember if I included grain/hay. This period was for a green 7 year old from a field to going 2* in 5 years. I should note that I'm not a professional, so there is no way I was going to get that journey done in say, 2 or 3 years. In other words, I didn't just do the minimum number of events to move up a level.

          Another factor is what part of the country - this was competing on the West Coast/Montana.

          Since then I don't have the stomach to do the math any more!
          Blugal

          You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            I'm not going to count the cost of the horse and its maintenance or the rider's maintenance. Nor am I going to count the cost of training and clinics.

            This is only to determine what competition costs would be. Apparently, the FEI when making rules may have no idea or perhaps doesn't care what the cost of its rule changes for competitors would be.

            I may only add in transportation at the 2 or 3* levels, since CCIs are so scarce at those levels.

            I'll probably also try and do what it would cost this year if the old rules were in place.

            I've got this thing about cost/benefit analysis BEFORE rules are changed. Not just in horse sports.

            Some black and white numbers might be useful if they are simply limited to the cost of the minimum number of NQRs and MERs required in North America.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire

            Comment


            • #7
              Never mind the 4* level, I don't even total the costs for going training. It would be far too depressing.

              It's like the old saying, if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.
              A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

              Comment


              • #8
                If all you are looking at are the competition costs, you should be able to get those from the omnibus.

                Travel cost will depend om where you live.
                Janet

                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Upper level eventers who have done it could tell you exactly what it costs. Will Coleman would be a good one to talk to--he nerds out on this type of stuff and has interesting insights. He has yearly prices broken down into ages of horses (which SHOULD coincide with level)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    oops, nevermind! I hadn't seen the post about not wanting the horse maintenance or rider costs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think it is just competition expense so that a comparison can be made re the FEI rule changes.
                      Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                      Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I had a horse that I bred make it to the advanced level, though he never did a 3 or 4 star. (he did do a few 2 stars). I paid all his bills (board, vet, farrier, entries, etc), but paid nothing to the rider for her time and training. (We had an agreement for the % she would receive should we ever sell the horse, but that never came in to play). She started him at Novice as a 4 yo, and he was an advanced horse at 10. This was in AREA II, so rarely stabling fees at events, and rarely much travel, though he did go to Florida in that advanced year.

                        Training and under about 15K a year. Prelim about 20K. Above that, 25-30. What kills you at the upper levels is the vet bills and maintenance. At that level if they blink wrong, you call the vet, and there are always diagnostitcs, and adequan, and legend, and, and, and. That's what killed us, after he came up NQR for the last time, and we were looking down the barrel of another round of diagnostics, I just had to say uncle. He got a year of Dr. Green, and then eventually brought to more kids up the levels. He's just come home actually, as his most recent lease kid is off to college.

                        I would double those costs for where I live now, sadly. And add at least a year, if not two, to the timeline, due to the travel and availability challenges out here. It was a wonderful experience, but I couldn't do it again, unless I win the lottery.
                        Phoenix Farm ~ Breeding-Training-Sales
                        Eventing, Dressage, Young Horses
                        www.phoenixsporthorses.com
                        Check out my new blog: http://califcountrymom.blogspot.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think at the highest levels I read on an UL rider website (Jessica P?) it's 40k/ year for a top level horse. Take it down $7-10k per level and that would seem pretty close I think (if you don't include board)...
                          A quick tutorial on interval training: Conditioning your horse for eventing

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Viney, I think your analytic and specific mind is wonderful. In this case, you get to define the parameters as you wish. Knowing you, you can come up with the average age and level an ULR takes on a prospect. My gut says not below Training, but I'm not sure that's right.

                            Looking forward to your findings.
                            They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                            Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by frugalannie View Post
                              Viney, I think your analytic and specific mind is wonderful. In this case, you get to define the parameters as you wish. Knowing you, you can come up with the average age and level an ULR takes on a prospect. My gut says not below Training, but I'm not sure that's right.

                              Looking forward to your findings.
                              I've decided to start with training because it's the first level where NQRs mean something. I got the USEA rules and they specify the minimum age for training.

                              This may take quite a long time.

                              What I don't quite understand is that the 4 NQRs at training required to go prelim--and you have to have an NQR at prelim before you can do a 1*--can be either rider or horse. Does that mean that a rider with 4 training NQRs on another horse can take a new horse directly to prelim? Or a horse with 4 NQRs with another rider can take new rider directly to prelim?

                              Janet?
                              "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                              Thread killer Extraordinaire

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                For Prelim, the RIDER has to have 4 NQRs at Training or above, one within the last year.

                                But there are no qualifications required for the horse.

                                Technically, a rider who has never gone above Training could do their first Prelim on a horse that has never completed an event at any level.

                                But more realistically, an upper level rider can bring out horse at Prelim, whether or not it has NQRs at Training.

                                The HORSE only starts to need NQRs to move up from Prelim to either a CIC*, a CCI*,or Intermediate
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Thanks. I have to read the rules more carefully. I had noticed that in most of the discussions of NQRs, the USEA/USEF has maintained the rider and horse as separate entities, unlike the FEI. Which I had applied to the NQRs for Prelim as well.

                                  Back to the Rules.


                                  Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                  For Prelim, the RIDER has to have 4 NQRs at Training or above, one within the last year.

                                  But there are no qualifications required for the horse.

                                  Technically, a rider who has never gone above Training could do their first Prelim on a horse that has never completed an event at any level.

                                  But more realistically, an upper level rider can bring out horse at Prelim, whether or not it has NQRs at Training.

                                  The HORSE only starts to need NQRs to move up from Prelim to either a CIC*, a CCI*,or Intermediate
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    40k per year would definitely include more than just competition costs. The prelim and Int years can be the most expensive in this regard as they run more frequently.
                                    It s pretty unpredictable after that, it is very rare to see a pair move smoothly from Adv- ClC 3*-CCl 3* and then onto a 4*.Then of course you could factor in the extreme cases where riders fly their horses around the globe to get qualified!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      What does it cost?

                                      It's one of those "If you must ask, you can't afford it" sorta things.
                                      Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                      Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Oh heck: about 15 years ago, my mother and I figured out the per/ride cost - including everything (purchase of land spread over several decades, property taxes, water, electricity on the fencing & waterers, then all the normal hay/grain/truck/trailer/competitions/ etc. etc.)

                                        We lived in snow country so only rode from April to October. Our final figure was about $50/ride.
                                        Blugal

                                        You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                                        Comment

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