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Can any TB experts help me with this pedigree?

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  • #21
    Strange how I came about finding your post. A friend of mine posted the new Camelot listing online and the bay thoroughbred with 2 rear socks and a chewed off tail (from her foal) caught my eye. I knew I knew this horse even though the photo didn't show her face well. A few months ago my trainer sold a thoroughbred broodmare we had and I knew it had to be her. I googled her registered name and found your link on here.

    My farm aquired her as an unbroke 3 year old along her mother (Skipanote) from a TB farm in Maryland. The owner did not want Hailey to race. Our farm breeds/trains Hanoverian and Oldenburg foals, so we started her under saddle with a few of our other youngsters. She showed a lot of promise and was very willing. She was somewhat spooky (like many young thoroughbreds), but she was never crazy. She was respectful both on the ground and under saddle.

    I showed her on the local hunter circuit as a 4 year old. Mostly pleasure classes and 2' courses. She always placed well on the flat and had some success in jumping as well. She had a wonderful flowing, extended trot (which judges loved) and her canter was very smooth and easy to sit. She was still very new to jumping, but was always careful and adjustable to the fences.

    We gave her some time off after a vet determined her stifles were slightly underdeveloped for her age, and we bred her. She produced 2 nice Oldenburg foals for our farm. We had recently put her back to work under saddle last summer. She needed some tuning up and time to figure out bending once again, but she didn't seem to have lapsed too much in her time off. Last fall, we sold her to reduce our herd, since we had more young warmbloods beginning training this spring.

    It was very surprising to me to see her in a feedlot, but I am glad that you took her in and are willing to give her a second chance. She truly is a sweet mare and is willing to please. Though she is still green and can be sensitive/spooky at times, with daily work and patience she should return to the wonderful, promising hunter mare she was in 2009.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      To be clear, she did come from Camelot, but she was not in the feedlot. She had gone through New Holland and was purchased by the owner of Camelot for resale.

      For a number of reasons, she isn't with me, but I do know who has bought her and she has a very good home. Additionally, I did speak to her ex owner (must be your trainer?) already about her.
      Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
      you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
        This.

        And also there is a very strong QH like sprinter component in Storm Cat that I don't think has much place in sport horses, especially eventers. He was not a very good sire of classic distance horses. If William Micklem is right and the best TB lines for eventing are classic distance sires (1 1/4 to 2 miles), Storm Cat ain't it in general. As grandsire, his influence is lessened, but it's still there to come out when his genes meet up with others of his type.

        And even if he does start showing up in pedigrees, it won't be because of his quality but more because of his quantity. As grandsire he is found in some quality FEI performers, but this has only happened in the past five years. As sire he has none.
        I agree with you in part. Storm Cat did tend to get a lot of QH-like offspring, and most of his sons do nothing for me... you won't catch me staring longingly at their confo shots on the stallion register.

        But, I have come to appreciate him a little more, after studying Overbrook's impressive breeding history and looking at the huge list of athletes Storm Cat has produced. Granted, they came from the very best mares available; and I think that the mare had a lot to say in how Storm Cat's offspring turned out... sprinter-type mares greatly enhanced the QH qualities in SC. However, more stamina-based mares certainly had no trouble getting a longer runner with Storm Cat. He had dozens of winners and top performers in classic races at 8.5f and beyond. Tabasco Cat and Cat Thief won the Belmont (1 1/2mi), Cat Thief won the BC Classic (1 1/4), Giant's Causeway won all over Europe (and second in the BC Classic), the list goes on... (Progeny).

        They're well known for their attitudes, but that didn't stop them from being athletic and tough. I managed some SC mares that were gorgeous movers, quite well-balanced, and would have produced a nice sport horse with the right sire. But the sport horse world won't come in contact with many F1 Storm Cats: they're simply too valuable. You don't see many Distorted Humors or AP Indys on CANTER or out eventing, either... when the stud fee is so high and the horse gets so many good runners, they just don't trickle down to the sport market. Their grand/great-grand get will turn up at events; the offspring of sons who stand for less but still get a full book of mares.

        Bottom line: don't shy away from Storm Cat, but look at the mare he was bred to, and the resulting grandson/daughter down the line. I don't get all excited when I see him in a pedigree, but it is not a turn-off. There are lots of other names on the page that will be of influence.
        “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
        ? Albert Einstein

        ~AJ~

        Comment


        • #24
          I'm somewhat puzzled. In the first post, you said that you had bought the mare. If Camelot bought her for resale, she wasn't in danger, was she?

          Now you say she's not with you--reasons don't matter--and that you know the person who bought her. Only three things explain that; either you flipped her just as the Camelot fellow did, or you never bought her in the first place or you returned her to the Camelot fellow.

          I'm glad she found a good new home after going through New Holland which might be a worse fate than Camelot.
          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
          Thread killer Extraordinaire

          Comment


          • #25
            It looks like she is still available at Camelot if this is her:

            VAHunters21:

            As far as I can tell, if the mare is #787 on the Camelot Horse Weekly facebook page, she is not yet sold. She is in the 'available 3/20 folder' right now (maybe someone purchased her but it has not been updated yet?). It looks like she may have been sold at Camelot last week but the buyer backed out. Sounds like she produced nice foals and is a nice mare. I hope she finds a soft place to land.

            Originally posted by VAHunters21 View Post
            Strange how I came about finding your post. A friend of mine posted the new Camelot listing online and the bay thoroughbred with 2 rear socks and a chewed off tail (from her foal) caught my eye. I knew I knew this horse even though the photo didn't show her face well. A few months ago my trainer sold a thoroughbred broodmare we had and I knew it had to be her. I googled her registered name and found your link on here.

            My farm aquired her as an unbroke 3 year old along her mother (Skipanote) from a TB farm in Maryland. The owner did not want Hailey to race. Our farm breeds/trains Hanoverian and Oldenburg foals, so we started her under saddle with a few of our other youngsters. She showed a lot of promise and was very willing. She was somewhat spooky (like many young thoroughbreds), but she was never crazy. She was respectful both on the ground and under saddle.

            I showed her on the local hunter circuit as a 4 year old. Mostly pleasure classes and 2' courses. She always placed well on the flat and had some success in jumping as well. She had a wonderful flowing, extended trot (which judges loved) and her canter was very smooth and easy to sit. She was still very new to jumping, but was always careful and adjustable to the fences.

            We gave her some time off after a vet determined her stifles were slightly underdeveloped for her age, and we bred her. She produced 2 nice Oldenburg foals for our farm. We had recently put her back to work under saddle last summer. She needed some tuning up and time to figure out bending once again, but she didn't seem to have lapsed too much in her time off. Last fall, we sold her to reduce our herd, since we had more young warmbloods beginning training this spring.

            It was very surprising to me to see her in a feedlot, but I am glad that you took her in and are willing to give her a second chance. She truly is a sweet mare and is willing to please. Though she is still green and can be sensitive/spooky at times, with daily work and patience she should return to the wonderful, promising hunter mare she was in 2009.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
              I'm somewhat puzzled. In the first post, you said that you had bought the mare. If Camelot bought her for resale, she wasn't in danger, was she?

              Now you say she's not with you--reasons don't matter--and that you know the person who bought her. Only three things explain that; either you flipped her just as the Camelot fellow did, or you never bought her in the first place or you returned her to the Camelot fellow.

              I'm glad she found a good new home after going through New Holland which might be a worse fate than Camelot.
              The full story:

              I am the original buyer. I bought her from Camelot, who bought her at New Holland. For reasons that I will not delve into here, I made arrangements for someone else to buy this horse from Camelot after a circumstance arose. I did that, but when she called, she was told that the mare had already been resold.

              Imagine my surprise when the horse reappeared this week. If someone else returned her to Camelot, it wasn't me, as I specifically arranged for someone else to take her since I couldn't, and they said she'd already been resold and I'd been refunded. That buyer may also have backed out-- I don't know.

              However-- she was not on the feedlot at the time I bought her. She was owned by the proprietor of Camelot, who bought her from New Holland. He has not sent a horse to slaughter in years, so if not going to me, she was going to go to some other buyer. The horse was no longer in danger at the time.

              It's my understanding that she has once again been sold.
              Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
              you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

              Comment


              • #27
                I guess everyone has their excuses... its sad to read all of this though since she appears to be a good producer with sport horses and no horse deserves to be passed around
                "My ideal horse is the horse that I fall in love with again every morning when I see his face hanging over the stable door, looking for breakfast. " - Jim Wofford

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                  I'm not a Storm Cat fan, but the rest of the pedigree is exemplary for sport. There's not a line in it which has not been proved in sport. You're very lucky to have Tudor Melody so reasonably close. He's a big influence for movement; and the number of horses who have produced jumping horses is enormous.

                  Mill Reef, Tudor Melody, Galivanter (damsire of the sire of Nova Top); Haytime is a daughter of Alycidon and a granddaughter of Umidwar; Well Decorated is the damsire of two current UL event horses in the US; Skip Trial is Damascus line and is the damsire of Gaelic Marriage; Promised Land is back in the pedigrees of quite a few Advanced horses and is the damsire of Spectacular Bid; Fluorsee has a lovely pedigree (sire is Double Jay); and then there is the line to Diplomat Way on the bottom. Nice top and bottom double to Tudor Minstrel. Also top and bottom to No. D and Bold Ruler.

                  This is, IMO, one of the most promising Storm Cat line pedigrees for sport that I have seen.

                  You might well have a horse with UL talent and the temperament to match.

                  I'd be interested in knowing if she has good dressage movement.
                  Viney who are the UL eventers by Well Decorated? I have a training level mare who is a Notebook grand daughter as well. I hope she has upper level potential.

                  http://www.pedigreequery.com/run+tuesday

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I met this guy a few weeks ago, he's lovely, almost beat Goldikova in the BC Mile and has a fine temperament.
                    http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...courageous-cat

                    This guy is pretty elegant and certainly not QH'ish
                    http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...768/flashstorm


                    This may be the handsomest stallion in KY
                    http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...tormy-atlantic
                    F O.B
                    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      For what it is worth I like Storm Cat in the pedigree. The ones I have known have opinions yes, but you can have a conversation with them. They also like to be asked not told and I am fine with that.

                      I agree, if you like the horse and aren't going to breed it I would not worry about pedigree.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Vic_007 View Post
                        I guess everyone has their excuses... its sad to read all of this though since she appears to be a good producer with sport horses and no horse deserves to be passed around
                        I totally agree. People never cease to amaze me. (And not in a good way.)

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I see a large mixture of pedigrees - which is GREAT - you don't seem to have a lot of doses - like I don't see a ton of repeated horses as you go back in the pedigree.

                          Secretariat's daughter had Storm Cat so Storm Cat himself was not a bad horse - but some dominant genes have resulted in some bad rap - but you have a pretty broad pedigree - I don't see as many repeats as I see in a lot of other horses so I think it would be better to see the pictures and a video. You may have a good mix of good genes.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Vic_007 View Post
                            I guess everyone has their excuses... its sad to read all of this though since she appears to be a good producer with sport horses and no horse deserves to be passed around
                            This situation sucks eggs. I agree with this poster, there I was feeling all warm and fuzzy about a lovely mare getting a home and a lucky buyer finding out they have a diamond in the rough. And then we find out the sad fact that this lovely mare is getting passed around like a plate in church. I hope we find out that she ended up in a good place.
                            Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Linny View Post
                              This may be the handsomest stallion in KY
                              http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...tormy-atlantic
                              My guy that I mentioned earlier is by Stormy Atlantic. He is neither nuts nor short and downhill.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Wait - you have a Skip-a-Note daughter? I thought the mare died?
                                The Rodeo Project - Tracking an Event Horse

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Fingers crossed that the mare Skip West Hailey (2006) found a soft landing after being last posted on the Camelot Weekly in March 20-21st. She is a daughter of Skipanote (FL) foaled April 16, 2000.)

                                  http://www.pedigreequery.com/skip+west+hailey

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    If anyone knows where she went, since OP apparently doesn't have her, I would love info. I would love to own her, too, in the event whomever has her decides she isn't what they want.
                                    The Rodeo Project - Tracking an Event Horse

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