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Horse Shopping Drama. How would you proceed?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by RoundTheBend View Post
    With horses you just have to take each horse as it comes and hope for the best. You can NEVER insure against anything. If a horse goes lame and retires, you just have to think, thats horses, put it to one side and move on to the next one. There's always another good horse around the corner that is affordable.
    Well, there's an attitude that can lead to a lot of financial and emotional heartbreak!

    You can't guarantee anything will/not happen, but some people do not have the resources to think "oh gee, too bad" and replace Dobbin so quickly.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
    Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

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    • #62
      I certainly wouldn't pay $500 for her, find out what the rescue paid and offer them that. They probably got her for free with her problems. I understand that rescues need to make some money, but you're taking an awful big chance with her feet.

      You're talking about shoes all around and pads just to get her comfortable for light work, what happens when you start jumping her?

      If it's a temporary issue of poor foot care I might be more inclined to move forward, but I certainly wouldn't pay $500 for her.

      You need to ask yourself what you're prepared to do if she ends up not being sound, are you the kind of person that can move her on in some way or would you be stuck with her?
      http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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      • #63
        I posted on your other thread too and have the same advice. Get a vet to look at the mare before you spend any more money on her. Once you know what any underlying issues are, you can make an educated choice.

        I have a friend who brought home a mare on a free lease. Mare was not quite right in front. Two months later, having spent money on shoes, board, etc. The horse was still not sound. She sent her back but was out of pocket about $1k that she could have spent on another horse. She has the SAME thing happen with the next horse she tried on free lease! Thank goodness she's now found one that's sound but my advice to her was have the vet out first, before you've spent $$$ taking care of someone else's horse.

        My vets have always told me to never take on a horse that's not sound if I have to board. If you have your own property and can afford to have a pasture ornament, that's another story but since you already have a small budget, I wouldn't get too attached to a horse that is already sore.

        Simke pointed out some very troubling observations about this mare's racing history. A horse that nearly won two claiming races with a $32K purse and then quickly got dumped at auction? Something happened to her to make her unsuitable to drop down in class (and as Simke said, there was a long way for her to go). She is a classy horse, for sure, but that history would make me very suspicious about her future soundness for a relatively hard new career. Even if she weren't sore, I thorough PPE is in order just based on her history.

        You want a horse to event. A horse that had an injury that killed it's racing career and which was apparently not rehabbed by its connections, is a gamble. Sure, any horse is a gamble, but why start with the odds stacked against you.

        I love OTTBs. I have one myself that came off the track with an injury. He, luckily, was completely rehabbed by his owners and has been sound (as a foxhunter) for the six years I've had him. I'm restarting another one right now for CANTER with a long racing history. He's remarkably sound for a horse that had 68 starts and I suspect he'll go on to be a great riding horse for someone but I'd strongly suggest that anyone who wants him should do a very complete PPE to test his suitability for a hard use job before asking him to do it.
        Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
        EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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        • #64
          i like her. if you can get her on a free lease, get her worst foot xrayed and then toss her out and let her heal it would be worth the risk. i sure would not be riding or lunging her at this point until she grows some foot.

          i have seen horses go dead lame from feet cut too short or shoes pulled.....

          also i am not sure i would spend 800 on a ppe for a 3k horse. seriously - PPE's are no guarantee of future soundness.

          make a list of what is critical to know - maybe flexions, xrays and basic health check? that would be a couple hundred.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by supershorty628 View Post
            Well, there's an attitude that can lead to a lot of financial and emotional heartbreak!

            You can't guarantee anything will/not happen, but some people do not have the resources to think "oh gee, too bad" and replace Dobbin so quickly.
            Sorry but there are many horses out there being consistently placed at 4 star level with terrible x-rays. they shouldnt even be able to trot. My point is, that once you start digging around and fussing over x-rays and vettings, you'll never be able to stop, and really they dont show you much at all. Some horses can cope with problems, others cant. You can spend ££££ on PPE's and xrays but you're never going to be able to guarantee a horse that is sound for life. Just use common sense when buying something but dont go overboard with vet and farrier advice.
            My best event horse failed the PPE for apparently being lame on 3 legs, vet said 'dont touch him' and he stayed sound for numerous seasons, and completed many long-format three day events and was on Uk junior team training and he is still storming round XC now aged 23, having started eventing as a 6 year old. Yet my flashy bred, expensive event horse that passed a PPE with flying colours when being vetted by the British event team vet did not last 5 minutes and always had something wrong with him. He had to be put down age 14.
            Hardly anyone has the resources to replace their only horse, but if it happens you just have to deal with it in the best way possible and available, and move on. I just dont put any trust in vettings anymore or fussing over the 'what ifs'.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by RoundTheBend View Post
              Sorry but there are many horses out there being consistently placed at 4 star level with terrible x-rays. they shouldnt even be able to trot. My point is, that once you start digging around and fussing over x-rays and vettings, you'll never be able to stop, and really they dont show you much at all. Some horses can cope with problems, others cant. You can spend ££££ on PPE's and xrays but you're never going to be able to guarantee a horse that is sound for life. Just use common sense when buying something but dont go overboard with vet and farrier advice.
              Yes and no. There's a lot of difference between buying a horse that is happily competing at the level you want to ride at but doesn't pass the vet and a horse that is coming off an extended layup, recovering from as yet unknown racing injury and a poor shoeing job and shows foot soreness now.

              I know several people who bought horses that looked great when they weren't in work . . . only to have the problems emerge when they started riding them regularly.

              My own horse came off the track with an apical sesamoid fracture and a tweaked suspensory. How they are rehabbed makes a huge difference. Plus, when I adopted him he was already in steady work so I knew that he was sound for what I wanted to do at the time when I took him on.
              Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
              EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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              • #67
                I don't think she looks unsound in the videos either. She seems cute. And I know what its like to fall in love with an ottb mare.
                If you are really attached to her already, even knowing her possible issues then vet her. If she fails the vet then you cut your loss and move on, and wont have any regrets. Its better than not vetting and spending thousands later on, on something that could have been found by the vet to begin with.
                Just remember there are a lot of horses (ottb's especially) that need homes. Don't let yourself settle for one, make sure you follow your heart but don't forget about your brain too
                I do like her though.

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                • #68
                  Do you have any video of her going to the right with enough canter steps to really see? If she is sore in both fronts, trotting might not show anything obvious but a canter will.

                  To me, I don't like the stiff neck and high head that sort of bounces every step- you see that sometimes in horses that are sore in front even if they are striking the ground evenly and not doing the classic up/down lame step.

                  When you board out and can only afford one? You can't just chuck them out and save money while you ride something else. You sit and pay.

                  The PPE money with a quick stop for anything raising the red flag is going to be the best $$$ you ever spend. If the mare was in regular work instead of off after a dramatic drop in class and ability in her previous career it would be a different story. Maybe.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                    I think some posters are missing the fact...the horse LOOKS and feels sound. The only reason the OP has some doubts is the mare reacted to hoof testers from her farrier. The horse could just be reactive to hoof testers (as a LOT of TBs can be). Or she could just have some sore feet....hell, I have one with that now who has been in a good farm for a year. It happens...and some TBs have sensitive feet, or pull shoes...or have a crappy trim job and it takes some time to get them right BUT it isn't a long term problem. Other horses can have perfect feet but Kissing spine....others can colic.

                    This is NOT a lame horse in my book, nor is it even a horse with crappy feet. This is a horse who a farrier got a reaction to hoof testers on....that is it. That is all the OP knows at this time. If they were on the East Coast...I'd be after this horse. My vet and PPE would let me know how much of a risk she is...and my farrier would work with my vet to improve her feet (as you have to do with just about every OTTB for a period of time).


                    Agree.

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                    • #70
                      I don't think I am missing the point that there are some issues and OP needs to develop a sound and useable Eventer starting NOW.

                      Nagging questions early on have a habit of tuning into lay ups and vet bills when some go into serious work. Particularly when there are questions about deteriorating performance under previous management.

                      IMO it's not all that sound. Investigation is the best choice.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        What do I know, but I LIKE HER! I would xray her fronts, or the ones that were the worst, And give her a shot, There is something about her, I would grab her, but The option of leasing is great. I have not read the other posts, but I love her attitude and way of going. What does your farrier say about what to do with her feet? special shoes? pads? I hope she works out, She has that look!

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                        • #72
                          Soooo...vet been out yet? Update?
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            When she was rescued in October, her feet were so severely over-trimmed she could barely walk. She was barefoot and on concrete (and emaciated). She did not grow hoof for the first three months after rescue because of the shock/trauma to the hooves. Since then she's been in a bedded stall basically putting on weight and growing hoof. Her first shoeing was seven weeks ago (front only) because until that point she didn't have enough hoof to shoe! When my farrier hoof tested her yesterday, she was pretty sore in both hinds and the left front.

                            Okay.
                            I read the OP, read a lot of the responses, and watched some of the videos.

                            1st: If this mare were "emaciated" in October it's not possible that she would look as nice as she does in the video which was posted in Feb.
                            I think I read a response having to do with not purchasing an emaciated horse or whatever. It's moot. The horse was skinny. Not emaciated. It's fine.

                            2nd: If this is the mare that was trimmed so short she couldn't walk then I say damn...I think she's lookin good.
                            Moot point. Ya she may still be sore but standing on sore feet doesn't always = the end of the world. Stop playing guessing games and get some rads.

                            BTW: She paddles on the right fore. That's the only thing I didn't like..

                            3rd: and as for pedal blah blah blah. You don't even know. You are just guessing.
                            She's not the first horse in the world who has been trimmed too short and honestly--I have two guesses that maybe she wasn't trimmed "too short" but was probably waaay long coming off the track. Had her shoes pulled and they trimmed her up in one shot rather than backing her up slowly.
                            It happens. You let time pass and it gets better. Everyone is happy happy happy.

                            4th: interesting hearing you complain about having a vet "come out". We don't do that here so it's a foreign concept to me. I drive my horses in 50 minutes to my vet. Yup...even for a single X-Ray. I load up their butts and drive um in.

                            You want my clear cut opinion?

                            Just take rads of the dang front feet and then you can stop wondering. Wondering is worth a million. I hate not knowing. It's worth $250 for me personally to have an answer.

                            Any basic PPE is a 1K investment. $800 is NOT expensive.

                            I bought a OTTB in Oct for 2K. Did a 1K PPE. Had him checked for ulcers last week and now I'm out another 1K (+) for treatment. Yup, I've spent more making this horse into a real horse than I did on his purchase. Whoop-tee-do. It's a horse. Expect to eat dirt so that you can make your horse happy. lol. My Granddad told me years ago--before I starting riding and owning--that horses = poverty. He was right.

                            Oh, also, I feel your pain. My OTTBs feet were trashed. They are still not where I'd like them to be and it's been 6 months. They are at least the same size now! He's still blowing abscesses out the back cornary bands though. But at least he *looks* like he is finally comfy up front.
                            When you say that this mare's feet were too short to shoe and this and that..it happens. Horses go out and rip off shoes and chuncks of hoof and have to be tossed out to grow foot again ALL THE TIME. This is not a unique situation.

                            **I was training a horse who trashed her front feet...they were too short to shoe. She wore soft rides 24/7 for several months. I didn't rider her for several months. Finally she had enough foot to shoe. The farrier put shoes on her and we went back to work. That's it. No big deal. You have to roll with the punches.

                            So if you really want this mare then be ready for some TLC and have patience.
                            And take pictures of the silly front feet. In the grand scheme of things it's two fancy dinners out with your friends or SO. You'll get over it.
                            For being 1/2 dead and unable to walk just 5 months ago, hey, I think her recovery is amazing.
                            Take pics of front feet and if they look fine then give her a chance.

                            also, as to pics and whatevers of front feet.
                            I had a TB whose feet always hurt and they looked fine on rads and MRI.
                            Flip side: I rode a cute paint horse for the past two years. He jumped around Novice on bilateral trashed navicular bursas/both all adheased. Right fore laminitus and an old calateral. Of course we had no idea...
                            and until we finally diagnosed him...I rode and even jumped him a bit with a 40% tear in his DDFT at the navicular for THREE MONTHS.

                            Horses, they are a crap shoot and lead to poverty.

                            yay us!!!


                            http://kaboomeventing.com/
                            http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                            Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

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                            • #74
                              Purp....love your response. Only thing I will say is I did get two skinny TBs late this December. They were really skinny. I wasn't sure they were going to make it. Vet gave them a body score of a low 2. This was around Christmas. If you looked at them now....you wouldn't believe it. They look fat and happy....just hairy. So they can bounce back pretty fast IF they were not starved like that for a long period of time.

                              This filly looked really skinny by the pictures posted...but she likely wasn't that way for that long. And I totally agree with you...I wouldn't be focusing too much on her past. Look at her now.
                              ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                              • #75
                                Dying for an update!!

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                                • #76
                                  Purp, you rock. Best response ever.

                                  Sorry....kind of irrelevant but an "appreciate" didn't seem strong enough!

                                  But yes, what purp & a lot of others have said. If you like the horse enough, get her feet x rayed. It is more than worth $250 to know what you are up against and if horse will ever be able to comfortably do what you want it to.
                                  "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
                                  "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by Event4Life View Post
                                    Purp, you rock. Best response ever.
                                    Not exactly - go back & LOOK at the Oct photo - the mare was beyond "skinny"

                                    Then start reading the details ...


                                    I have two guesses that maybe she wasn't trimmed "too short" but was probably waaay long coming off the track. Had her shoes pulled and they trimmed her up in one shot rather than backing her up slowly.
                                    The present owner who actually saw the horse (& rescued the horse) back in October, stated the feet were trimmed very short & mare was standing on concrete - additional evidence supporting this absurd claim is that mare did not have enough foot until mid January to place shoes: 3 1/2 months to grow out a foot is not a case of a "normal" trim compared to track feet (unless, of course, the horse happened to be emaciated which it obviously was not ...)


                                    Flip side: I rode a cute paint horse for the past two years. He jumped around Novice on bilateral trashed navicular bursas/both all adheased. Right fore laminitus and an old calateral. Of course we had no idea...
                                    and until we finally diagnosed him...I rode and even jumped him a bit with a 40% tear in his DDFT at the navicular for THREE MONTHS.
                                    Yes I remember this horse & in the spirit of boldly stating my opinion, he was always lame, off, unsound or whatever euphemism you may wish to use ... unsure why it took so long to investigate when it's so simple ...

                                    You want my clear cut opinion?
                                    Just take rads of the dang front feet and then you can stop wondering. Wondering is worth a million. I hate not knowing. It's worth $250 for me personally to have an answer.

                                    Any basic PPE is a 1K investment. $800 is NOT expensive.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                                      Dying for an update!!
                                      Me too!
                                      http://pony3express.blogspot.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Maybe they are waiting for more results?? Or a second opinion?

                                        Or it's one of the 90% we never hear anything further on.
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          So alto, do you think this horse is lame now? Because I am usually pretty good at spotting unsoundness and I don't see anything about her that would worry me. To the contrary, I really like how she's moving freely forward, lovely big flowing trot stride. Are we watching the same video?

                                          Anyway, I like her a lot, OP. I'd do rads so you have a baseline on what's going on there and decide accordingly.

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