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Eventer prospect? UPDATED SAW HIM & have ???'s HELP!!!

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  • Eventer prospect? UPDATED SAW HIM & have ???'s HELP!!!

    I've seen the gelding, please scroll down to my 3rd post to read what he is like. THANKS!

    ORIGINAL POST:
    Hey guys - thoughts on this guy? He's a Feb. '07 TB yearling. I know he isn't standing up well and that he looks a little over at the knee and possibly camped out behind, but I think this could just be because the photos of him aren't great. Anyway, I love his shoulder, angles and his face. His hind end looks like it may be a little small, comparatively. So let me know what you think!!

    Here are photos. http://community.webshots.com/album/...host=community
    Last edited by Trailrider70; Oct. 19, 2008, 10:26 AM. Reason: updating

  • #2
    He looks pretty good, but it's so early to tell!

    I like his substance and overall balance-- the parts seem to match very well. Nice neck/shoulder, good hip.

    Hard to tell on the front legs... he's standing awkwardly in most of the photos. I'd like a bit more angle in the hock, but it's ok.

    How does he move? Long flowing strides, overstep at walk? He certainly is cute!
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~

    Comment


    • #3
      i think hes rly cute.. what breed is he?

      he looks almost like my 5yr old anglo-arab except for the chrome on his back legs..

      i rl like his face too.. and his eye... i dont mind his legs...

      his neck looks a little short to me but i like them long necked boys... .....

      sry i couldnt give you better advice...

      Comment


      • #4
        Quite a nice youngster actually -
        Legs look good and everything 'fits' to their proportions.
        Way too early to make any more comments - knowing the Sire and Dam would be helpful in making predictions.
        www.littlekentuckyfarm.com
        Thoroughbred Training and Sales

        Comment


        • #5
          Hmmmm. I like him, but it's so hard to tell at this age what he's going to be like. I like where his neck comes out of the shoulder, and he has a great hip.
          The only thing that I can visually say is that his hind legs look fairly straight. Straight hind legs (think post legged) don't really give a lot of shock absorption. However, he *could* be in a funky stage right now, so it may not be how he ends up.

          I would not throw a ton of weight on overstep at the walk at this point, LOL. So many babies can overtrack by a foot at this point but it's because their hind legs are LONGER than the front - ie: GROWTH SPURT.

          What is his temperment like? I'd use that to help seal the deal. Also, are you aspiring for an upper level horse or a lower level horse?

          Comment


          • #6
            Can you go see him in person? I like him but am slightly concerned about his front legs...especially his left front. They do not need to be perfectly straight but he seems a bit offset in how his cannon bone and knee are alined.....and I can't tell if it is just the way he is standing or if it is structual. Some thing that you should be able to see in person. Some crookedness I will take...but for an event horse, it needs to be minimal and not something that I think will cause him soundness issues.

            Love his head and neck/shoulder....what a cutie!
            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

            Comment


            • #7
              hmmmm

              while this is an attractive youngster...and don't worry about the engine...Linden Wiesman's Anderoo did not develop a hindquarter till he was 7 or 8, and he ws running Intermediate by then...but the front legs concern me on this one. Over in the knee can be a good thing, may save the stress on the tendons, as the leg will reach a turnover point in the stride sequence sooner...but the "offset" nature of this youngster's leg from the knee down would concern me....that kind of stuff can show up in a multitude of check ligament, and ringbone troubles later on.
              However, Anderoo broke all the rules, and Linden's coaches and I all thought he would not hold up to the stresses of Prelim, back when I was traveling with her and her three to four upper level horses, and Anderoo fooled us all by always coming out in the mourning, sound as could be!i
              What would you try if you knew you would not fail?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mach Two View Post
                while this is an attractive youngster...and don't worry about the engine...Linden Wiesman's Anderoo did not develop a hindquarter till he was 7 or 8, and he ws running Intermediate by then...but the front legs concern me on this one. Over in the knee can be a good thing, may save the stress on the tendons, as the leg will reach a turnover point in the stride sequence sooner...but the "offset" nature of this youngster's leg from the knee down would concern me....that kind of stuff can show up in a multitude of check ligament, and ringbone troubles later on.
                However, Anderoo broke all the rules, and Linden's coaches and I all thought he would not hold up to the stresses of Prelim, back when I was traveling with her and her three to four upper level horses, and Anderoo fooled us all by always coming out in the mourning, sound as could be!i

                That "offset" is what I was seeing as well in the pictures. Yeah you never know...I've also seen some pretty crooked horses running around *** level....but when plunking down the cash for a baby, I try to minimize the risks. And if he really is as offset as he looks in the photos.....I would probably pass. But I really can't tell if it isn't just the photos.
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                Comment


                • #9
                  offset

                  Good point about not plunking down money on a youngster, bornfree, when Linden bought Anderoo, he was four, and had already come out of race training sound. I have a horse that is over in the knee, and he never had tendon problems, but he raced till he was seven over fences, sound all the while.
                  It is a different risk to take an unproven youngster with a potential leg problem, and go through the heartbreak of having leg problems at three or four, as you start schooling.

                  All this being said, that pretty baby may be a four star horse that will prove us all wrong....I'm happy to say, I' ve been proven wrong before.
                  If the baby pictured is not expensive, and you would be able to resell it if things did not work out, give it a try, but if it is your one chance to have a young horse, I'd look around a bit more.
                  What would you try if you knew you would not fail?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Wow you guys are great! I had the same feelings/worries about that front leg too. I am looking for something to bring up and go max Prelim, more like Training though . I have the means to start him and resell him if necessary. This would not be a one chance to get it right situation, although I would like to stack the deck for success as much as possible!

                    His pedigree can be seen at http://www.pedigreequery.com/saintly+special

                    My current horse is bred like this but Seattle Slew on bottom and Pleasant Colony on top. In addition 5 I was told my eventer was a bit 'straight' in the hind. He is an amazing jumper today. Since this guy is close and under $1k I think I may go have a look. I suspect he is just in a terrible 'gawky' phase and that he isn't standing up too well.

                    I'll let you all know how he looks in person!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Trailrider70 View Post
                      Wow you guys are great! I had the same feelings/worries about that front leg too. I am looking for something to bring up and go max Prelim, more like Training though . I have the means to start him and resell him if necessary. This would not be a one chance to get it right situation, although I would like to stack the deck for success as much as possible!

                      His pedigree can be seen at http://www.pedigreequery.com/saintly+special

                      My current horse is bred like this but Seattle Slew on bottom and Pleasant Colony on top. In addition 5 I was told my eventer was a bit 'straight' in the hind. He is an amazing jumper today. Since this guy is close and under $1k I think I may go have a look. I suspect he is just in a terrible 'gawky' phase and that he isn't standing up too well.

                      I'll let you all know how he looks in person!

                      Definately let us know. I had a son of Skywalker (on the bottom of this guys pedigree)....He was a cool cool COOL horse. Nice mover and very good jumper. He was a bit of an aloof horse until he got to know you. Just screamed class. Had won quite a bit on the track (turf). Unfortunately he got hurt and I had to put him down at a fairly young age.....that one still hurts....but I've always wanted to go find another one (maybe when I get my farm!). But I like this youngster's pedigree....and he is very pretty. So I would go look and see what you thought of him in person.

                      ETA: This was my boy's pedigree. http://www.pedigreequery.com/touchaclass
                      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Okay so I saw this guy in person. VERY sweet young man. The original asking price for this guy was $5,500 and they are down to less then $1k and saying 'make offer'. The breeder is cutting back. They are nice people who do this as a 'sideline' but do it well (#3 in the state of Texas for $ earned). That translates to thoughtful crosses, well cared for horses and good care. All bonuses.

                        His hind end is much nicer in person than the pictures let on. I forgot my camera so didn't get any photos... sorry!!! He is not at all post legged (which I was a little concerned about). Pretty head, nice head/neck attachment, great shoulder, long gaskins, adequate length of cannon w/out being too short or long, good pastern angles. His feet aren't huge, but they are worn down naturally, w/out farrier care so they are a little 'smaller/shorter' than would be his natural balance.

                        The downside? He IS bench kneed. I have never had a horse w/this and I really know relatively little about it. Let me say it is NOT as extreme as it looks in the photos. In fact unless you really KNEW what a horse was supposed to look like you might miss this. They said they thought of shoeing him to correct it? I figured since 'bench kneed' is a product of how the knees are 'turned' it couldn't really be corrected. However I suspect you can help the balance/movement w/proper shoeing? I did find an article on www.thehorse.com which said:
                        "Other joint alignment problems originate in the knee or carpal joint. One that was previously thought to be quite serious is bench knee. This means that the forearm and cannon bone are not properly aligned. The bench-kneed horse will have the forearm entering the knee on the inside or medial aspect, while the cannon bone below the knee joint will exit on the outside or lateral aspect. Though it has commonly been thought that bench knees put a horse at serious risk for injury especially in high-stress disciplines, recent research suggests that this might not be the case." Still I really have never known a horse w/this...

                        Now this guy moves really nice, I actually thought.... HUNTER! Which isn't a bad thing for a long yearling loafing at a trot in the field. Nice daisy cutter type swing which originates in the shoulder. He is also balanced when he moves, i.e. he is not lumbering around on his forehand.

                        I'd say he stands about 15 maybe 15.1 right now so likely to be a big enough boy. He's certainly pretty. His dam is about 16.2 and is a solid built girl.

                        So HELP!!! What do we think about a bench kneed horse for performance? As I said... Training MAYBE Prelim (but that's ambitious). Anyone have a horse like this? I appreciate the input.

                        Also thoughts on what you might offer for this guy?

                        THANKS!!!
                        Last edited by Trailrider70; Oct. 18, 2008, 07:54 PM. Reason: more information

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I haven't had tons of experience with it. I had one horse that had it mildly. Didn't cause any problems for him and I had him at prelim. He had raced with no issues as well. So I guess it really depends on whether it is mild.

                          He sounds sweet, he's cheap, and he's pretty. You are not thinking of making him a Rolex horse....I'm thinking it might be worth the chance. Do you have a good sport's vet? If so, I would have your vet take a look at him. Listen to his heart and just put his hands on him. Very minimal PPE but then get your vet to give you his opinion of his conformation.
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Talk to your vet...it is totally NOT uncommon for youngsters this age to look behind the knee...they go through stages as they grow. I have a yearling right now doing the same thing...she has gone through stages of being completely straight to behind the knee depending on how she is growing and when. While you can't be assured that he won't end up that way, if you have some knowledge of his parents, you can get an idea. Overall he looks lovely and with a price that low, it may be worth the risk for getting a quality animal. But talk to your vet or go to a breeders farm and talk to them...they will give you a really good clue to how babies grow. Personally, i wouldn't worry too much about it at this point unless his parents looked like that.
                            For things to do in Loudoun County, visit: www.365thingstodoloudoun.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've seen several Quarterhorses in this area with bench knees. All of them competition horses (that's how I saw them ) and they all seemed sound and performed well. Three of them are barrel racers and the other two are heading horses for ropers. Those two geldings get used hard.

                              I'd take a chance on the boy, offer $700 and see what they say.
                              Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by knightrider View Post
                                Talk to your vet...it is totally NOT uncommon for youngsters this age to look behind the knee...they go through stages as they grow.

                                I thought she said bench knee...isn't that different from behind at the knee? But I really agree with your advice. Babies do go through stages.....I've known some with great conformation as yearlings who ended up more crooked when they were older....and others that looked really funky turn out well.
                                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  another Who knows?

                                  looks like a nice prospect/ project; I,too question the straightness of his right foreleg; what is his breeding?
                                  Last edited by Carol Ames; Oct. 18, 2008, 10:57 PM. Reason: typos
                                  breeder of Mercury!

                                  remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    make an offer?

                                    Less than 1K?; I'd definitely go for it!; Has he been backed? Seattle slew was also crooked in one front leg, but, with the dressage training his trainers'wife gave him ; he won the Triple Crown and came out sound!How big is he? with some groceries, grooming and muscle, assuming he will vet, you may be able to re sell him as a hunter prospect quickly; people want new young horses to bring out in Florida
                                    breeder of Mercury!

                                    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Hey guys!

                                      Just to clarify he is 'bench kneed' not 'behind at the knee'. I do not have a regular vet, I've been lucky enough to only need to participate in the annual shot clinics. I would have to look around to see if there is a vet in the area who might go out.

                                      The input is really appreciated! Even though he isn't too expensive, we all know the purchase is the least expensive part of ownership. As I mentioned he isn't TERRIBLY bench kneed, and if you really didn't know what it was or how to look at conformation you might miss it. The rest of this boy cannot be faulted.

                                      They have not started him (he is only a long yearling) which is a bonus in my book. He is halter broke and has been groomed. He let me run my hands all over him in the field, including down his hind legs and sides! Again he is around 15 - 15.1 and his pedigree can be seen at http://www.pedigreequery.com/saintly+special His sire can be seen at http://www.keyranch.com/Special_Rate.htm his fee is $3000. Nice looking stallion although he looks a bit camped out behind.

                                      They told me they have had several people out to look at him but no one has called back. I had thought about offering $500. The owner told me they sell their non performers off the track for $350 "...just to make the IRS happy." which I thought may mean I could get this little man for a song.

                                      Please keep the input coming. Thoughts on offering $500?
                                      Last edited by Trailrider70; Oct. 18, 2008, 11:46 PM. Reason: update

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I'd pay 500 for him...
                                        (if i didn't have my *dream horse* in my 4 month about to be a weanling baby)

                                        Go for it!
                                        -Chelsie
                                        "Hell yes I can ride. I was riding when I fell off!"

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