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Horse Buying: Conformation & Vices

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  • #21
    I hope you finally just buy this mare and turn her into what she is talented to do...you don't "ride" cribbing and weaving (those can be managed). You love everything about this mare. Your heart has told you this already..circumstances have told you this already...Just do it and don't look back. If she ends up a superstar nobody will care if she cribs and weaves.

    How's that for enabling!!!

    Comment


    • #22
      Sounds like you really like this horse! I was the same way when I found my mare--went away from my rides grinning. Interestingly, after I did buy her--I discovered that she was a weaver (she is an OTTB). However, she only did it when she was in the stall for a long time, or sometimes at shows. With a regular turnout schedule and a barn that provides plenty of hay---I don't think I have seen her weave once in the past 8 years!! So she was a mild weaver and it did seem to go away. And I have never, ever, regretted buying her. I still get a big grin from riding her fun, floaty trot!!

      Now I have a younger horse that cribs. Even on 24/7 turnout, she will still crib when she is eating grain, and sometimes crib on the run-in shed. With a thin strap around her neck (not any sort of official anti-cribbing device) she stops. But I don't think she will ever stop cribbing--no matter how she is managed.

      So you buy the horse and take a chance that the vices may or may not disappear with more turnout time. However, as someone already said--you don't ride the vices, so if you enjoy riding her, you might want to take a chance on this horse.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by FLeventer View Post
        I hate weavers. I will deal with cribbers, have in the past and have had no issues. Weaving equals no sale any day of the week.

        Over the knee is an issue, bit I have had two horses over the knee and both have raced and then evented into their late teens (19/17) at training level. They went to BN/N with their next riders and have stayed sound *knock wood*

        I guess I would be more worried about the weaving then anything and that is going to hurt resale.
        This!!! You can stop a cribber with a good strap...There is NO WAY to stop a weaver. It is ugly and distracting to a buyer no matter how good she moves or how high she jumps!! If you love her, buy her, but it will be a "til death do we part" relationship, because I don't think you will ever find a buyer!! JM "experienced" O !!! That's why she is $500!!
        www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
        Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

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        • #24
          Originally posted by crosscreeksh View Post
          This!!! You can stop a cribber with a good strap...There is NO WAY to stop a weaver. It is ugly and distracting to a buyer no matter how good she moves or how high she jumps!! If you love her, buy her, but it will be a "til death do we part" relationship, because I don't think you will ever find a buyer!! JM "experienced" O !!! That's why she is $500!!
          Just wanted to chime in here, that I don't agree. I have seen way more people turn down cribbers than weavers. In fact the few weavers that I sold, it was pretty much a non-issue. They were nice, but not UL type horses.

          Sheila

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          • #25
            I might be in the minority, but I would take a weaver over a cribber. I had a weaver for years, OTTB chesnut mare. She would simply hang her head over the stall door and rock back and forth silently. The bedding in her stall would get somewhat messed up but no worse that some other horses I have had and as long as you didn't look at her you couldn't tell she was doing anything bad and there was no damage done to the stall.

            BTW, she did this even with almost 24/7 turnout. They had run in stalls and if there was a bug anywhere in the pasture she was in the stall .


            Christa

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              [QUOTE=mommy peanut;6861381]After having him at our barn for about 6 months, he was a completely different horse & stopped weaving. QUOTE]

              This is a dream scenario, but of course I can't help but wish/wonder if it could happen for me too. She's been treated badly throughout her short life. Even now that she's been "rescued," she stands in a stall most days with inconsistent work. No wonder she has issues. Maybe if she had good feed, supps, regular work, a job, neighbors, a "mommy," etc. she would work through these things. Research generally says no to this hope, though. However, she is not a confirmed cribber or weave. They're both mild and sporadic. Maybe she's young enough to change? Here's to wishful thinking.

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by fairtheewell View Post

                How's that for enabling!!!
                LOL! My trainer might kill you for saying this ; )

                I make my horse buying decisions with my head first. As soon as they're mine, it's all heart from there. I wish they could both work together at the same time!

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by fairtheewell View Post

                  How's that for enabling!!!
                  LOL! My trainer might kill you for saying this ; )

                  I make my horse buying decisions with my head first. As soon as they're mine, it's all heart from there. I wish they could both work together at the same time!

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    [QUOTE=Simkie;6861320]And over in one knee? How does that foot look? Are you sure she's actually over in the knee and not heel sore?

                    QUOTE]

                    Wow, great questions. I know for sure that she is heel sore. Her feet are a mess (not as bad as some OTTBs I've seen, but typical stuff: underrun heel, long toe, overdue, etc.). She actually has nice feet, but they've been badly managed. It would take several cycles IMO to get her to a good place. I didn't know that heel soreness could cause a horse to appear over at the knee???

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                      Wow, great questions. I know for sure that she is heel sore. Her feet are a mess (not as bad as some OTTBs I've seen, but typical stuff: underrun heel, long toe, overdue, etc.). She actually has nice feet, but they've been badly managed. It would take several cycles IMO to get her to a good place. I didn't know that heel soreness could cause a horse to appear over at the knee???
                      Absolutely. One way to unweight the heel is to pop over in the knee.

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                      • #31
                        cribbing and weaving. Does she only weave when kept in a stall? Would 24 hour turn out take care of those? Do you even have access to 24 hour turn out?

                        as for over at the knee.
                        I prefer my horses over at the knee. I WILL NOT buy a horse who is back at the knee.

                        Over at the knee takes some stress off of the soft tissues and in my opinion is a plus for longevity of soundness, where as back at the knee increases stresses.
                        http://kaboomeventing.com/
                        http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                        Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

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                        • #32
                          oh! I forgot to add.
                          Toby is really terrible in stalls. So at shows and clinics it is a disaster.
                          I usually have to tie him and hobble him. Last year we were at a clinic with dirt floors and he dug holes that my whole body would fit into.

                          It's embarrassing and a royal PITA.

                          The next issue--even if you are purchasing for a life long commitment I ALWAYS look at the horse objectively and ask myself if I could resell said horse if I needed too.
                          A mare that cribs and weaves? You'd be hard pressed to even be able to give that away...
                          http://kaboomeventing.com/
                          http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                          Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

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                          • #33
                            [QUOTE=blame_the_champagne;6863833]
                            Originally posted by mommy peanut View Post
                            After having him at our barn for about 6 months, he was a completely different horse & stopped weaving. QUOTE]

                            This is a dream scenario, but of course I can't help but wish/wonder if it could happen for me too. She's been treated badly throughout her short life. Even now that she's been "rescued," she stands in a stall most days with inconsistent work. No wonder she has issues. Maybe if she had good feed, supps, regular work, a job, neighbors, a "mommy," etc. she would work through these things. Research generally says no to this hope, though. However, she is not a confirmed cribber or weave. They're both mild and sporadic. Maybe she's young enough to change? Here's to wishful thinking.
                            It's all a matter of tolerance. What you've described wouldn't bother me (the fact she's a mare bothers me more as I don't "do" mares ) but you can tell from the responses here that for many people stable "vices" or OCD behaviors can be deal breakers. My guess is that she would settle down with time and if they are sporadic now, they will get less pronounced.

                            Of course, they might not.

                            Or she might get injured.

                            Whenever you buy a horse you take the risk that something could go wrong with them. It just depends on what your risk tolerance is!
                            Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                            EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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                            • #34
                              Lots of OTTB have stable vices that with turn-out and a regular job disappear. Also the back at the knee thing might not be that big a deal. Talk to a knowledgeable vet. One of Mary King's horses, I think it was King William had horrible confirmation and still went Advanced.
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                              • #35
                                [QUOTE=Bogie;6863990]
                                Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post

                                but you can tell from the responses here that for many people stable "vices" or OCD behaviors can be deal breakers. My guess is that she would settle down with time and if they are sporadic now, they will get less pronounced.

                                Of course, they might not.

                                Or she might get injured.

                                Whenever you buy a horse you take the risk that something could go wrong with them. It just depends on what your risk tolerance is!

                                Totally agree. For some people her color will be a deal breaker...or the fact that she is a mare. Yes...her "vices" right now will make her a harder re-sell. But that is also one reason she is $500. You enjoyed riding her. You like her....I do not see what there is to be stressing about.

                                Have your vet out...and see what they think. If she passes a PPE--then take her home. Give it some time and see what you have. Most likely these "vices" will turn out to not be much....or you could get her feeling good and have a monster on your hands You will learn something and most likely have some fun with her. If she becomes your dream horse...fantastic. If not, you will have improved her and help her on her way to another home. With a smaller budget and buying a green horse, you are taking big risks. But you have ridden her and like her...she is pretty and has good movement. Sounds like a horse worth taking a risk on.
                                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                                • #36
                                  That feeling you described- the can't-stop-grinning, can't-wait-for-the-next-ride, just plain FUN feeling you got from her- that is what makes this horse special. OTTB's, and even really nice moving ones, are a dime a dozen and affordable, even in your price range. Horses that you really connect with, on the other hand, are not, and IME, they are few and far between. If she is meant for you for keeps, I'd go ahead and vet her. I could deal with some (manageable) vices for a really special horse.

                                  If she is for resale, on the other hand, I would think long and hard. People can be VERY picky about what makes or breaks a sale, and cribbing and weaving are big red-flag words for many buyers.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Okay, so the seller agreed to let me do a month trial on this mare. That will give me time to see if I can deal with her vices and if they are manageable (or, fingers crossed, perhaps even improve). She arrives today and I'm really excited (but nervous too). I will get to work with her every day and she what happens between us, what my ferrier thinks, what my vet thinks, what my trainer thinks, etc. She was rescued from a low end auction (many kill buyers) because she was half starved and wasn't going to sell to a good home. I just got pictures of her from those days (cringe!) and I'm wondering if she has ulcers from the previous race career + malnutrition. Maybe when we treat those the cribbing will lessen? Here's to hoping for a good month and a clean vet check!

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Weaving and cribbing are a deal breaker for me. But that said if she is off the track some tbs do this because of they are bored. I have seen and it is possible if she could stay out 24/7 except at shows and bad weather they can break from this habit but that's a chance you are taking and if she doesn't then it is harder for resale. Over at the knee, well I've had a few and they lived into their 30s and worked up until late 20s. One was a trail horse, stopped riding him at 30 the other was a barrel racer and jumper and rode him until he was about 29 I now have one that is pigeon toed lol. Love him to death, but when the university vet said buy this horse, because he was so sane and nice otherwise the pigeon toe wouldn't be that much of a hinder to him. So I did
                                      Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                                      • #39
                                        Ooh. You mean the mare has "work ethic"??? You mean she likes to work and wants to please and likes to learn and has anticipation of of the rider's requests? With "trying so hard" type responses?? And, she has a great step and way of going which is all about rocking back and pushing? This horse will not get lame on the front from pushing, she will love working for you. If you can pay attention to HER needs, which may be reflected in her anxiety shown by weaving, etc, you may have a gem. I think, personally, that a smart, intelligent horse who loves to work and wants a job will have fewer 'bad' habits if you keep her working. I would snatch her up in a minute. She can weave if it makes her happy,but I can also make her happy keeping her in work and tired. A tired horse is a good horse. Take her and see where she wants to go. Give her a great job and a great home. The weaving will beome less of an issue, if work becomes a bigger issue, IMO. I would not pass her by because of her anxiety. There's a reason why she's anxious, help her out with that. Or, get a horse who is happy not getting what he needs, and doesn't tell you about it in his behaviour. That's my take.
                                        My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
                                          I just got pictures of her from those days (cringe!) and I'm wondering if she has ulcers from the previous race career + malnutrition. Maybe when we treat those the cribbing will lessen? Here's to hoping for a good month and a clean vet check!
                                          What a wonderful opportunity
                                          definitely just treat for ulcers - almost all cribbers have some degree of ulceration (though many horses with ulcers do not crib).

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