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Looking for opinions on suitability

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  • Looking for opinions on suitability

    I posted this over in sporthorse breeding but after 113 views noone has taken a stab at this.

    I have this stallion in my barn (racing)....he belongs to an owner. Owner is not quite ready to retire him just yet.

    Here is my question (s):

    I know there are not a ton of really nice TB stallions out there for eventing and this horse just really knocks my socks off. He is super fun to ride. Someone really started him off well. He seems to know about moving off leg and is easy to bend and supple. He absolutely floats and his gallop takes my breath away.

    I'm curious if this horse is something people would consider stallion quality in the long run....for sport horses? I do not know much about his pedigree (not a lot in there I recognize), but he did make over $200k in his career so far.

    I feel even at his "ripened" age he would make for an interesting mount as he acts and feels like a very young horse...with clean wheels.

    Here is his pedigree:

    I do LOVE Hennessy in a pedigree....but not a whole lot of names really jump out at me....Mr. P...and Storm Cat yes...but.... Any thoughts?

    Links to some fuzzy videos:

    Trot video:

    When he puts effort in he is awesome to watch. He can be a tad on the lazy side but he is oh so powerful.
    I don't have a conformation shot of him....but if I had to fault him I would say his neck is slightly short....but doesn't seen to hinder how he carries himself.
    I wanted to ask because to me....it would be a shame to geld this guy....but his owner is considering it....since stallions are harder to find homes for....


    Last edited by jenarby; Feb. 16, 2013, 11:47 PM.
    RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10

  • #2
    Your videos don't work for me.


    • #3
      Videos are not showing up. I like his pedigree but would need to see him.
      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **


      • Original Poster

        hmmm....I don't know why they aren't working.

        If you look me up on youtube under "jenarby" the videos will be under Backgammon. They are low quality cell phone videos but you can see him well enough to see the quality of his movement.
        RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10


        • Original Poster

          OK...I think I have them fixed now....let me know if they work or not.
          RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10


          • #6
            Videos work...shadows make it a bit tough to see but he looks very nice to my uneducated eye. :-)
            Our journey - http://charlieandmeeventing.blogspot.com/


            • #7
              I would want to see some kind of show record (jumping 3'6+) before I got too excited about breeding to him. Or that he has produced UL horses or has close relatives that are UL horses-- or Level III or IV jumpers etc. There are a lot of nice but unproven TB stallions out there and basically no market for their babies until they are competing.


              • #8
                I call dibs. Seriously, I do. Do. Not. Geld.

                Mr.P, Nasrullah on bottom, and nice select European bloodlines-- this is a quality horse with a elegance and grace.

                Gold Bridge

                I'm not one for Wikipedia, but this does summarize nicely:
                My Babu : Ancestor of JJ Babu (Bruce's horse), and Bonfire (Anky's)

                Grey Dawn

                However, Hawaii and Storm Cat so close together and up front give me slight cause for pause-- this guy may have a wicked stubborn, almost-cantankerous streak when pressure is added. And, influence of Grey Dawn and Secretariat may *very much* enhance this element. But anyhow, that stubborness may be able to be directed towards a "good" fighter, a tenacious competitor.

                In his own performance, with that floating trot and balanced canter while still on the track, I'd daresay this gorgeous guy could go very far in his own right. Sure, I'd like to see him in person, but it is clear that he fully knows how to use his body-- with enhancing the use of his back and letting him push even more, I believe he may be a true success under saddle.

                Given the information so far-- your description, his pedigree, video-- I'd welcome him in our training and breeding programs in a heartbeat. He appears to inherently, intrinsically know how to correctly move-- that's rare, very rare-- and I'll wager that he's going to pass that quality to his offspring. Especially if crossed with elegant, gentle mares (geno- and phenotype), there will likely be top-notch babies.

                In short, I love him. Does he have any foals on the ground in racing?
                Last edited by Glenbaer; Feb. 17, 2013, 08:30 AM.


                • #9
                  Very nice gaits. Neck a little short and set a little low , but what a mover , ESP still on the track!
                  Of course, he would have to have the temperament to go along with that...


                  • #10
                    Wow... great mover. He could also be approved RPSI based on his track earnings.


                    • Original Poster

                      I would love to see him compete for sure. I really think he would be loads if fun.
                      An eventer who bought a filly from me saw hin in the stall abd fell in love with him.
                      So it got my wheels turning. She said his age didnt matter because he is so nice.
                      I was just curious if it was just her opinion or if that would be the general consensus.
                      RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10


                      • #12
                        He's yummy.


                        • #13
                          He looks very nice, but you have to keep in mind that there are lots of very nice TBs out there and as a stallion he needs to have the competition record to back him. Anyone can keep a nice stallion and market it as a breeding sire based on conformation, a trot video, and bloodlines. It depends on what you expect as a stud fee and if it's worth the extra management. As a stallion he's less desirable to the average rider out there if you intend on selling him, and as a stallion with no competition record he's less desirable as a sire or as a possible addition to a breeding program.

                          His care needs are different then a gelding, if you take him to shows he might have different needs (some stallions need permanent stalls with solid walls or can't be stabled next to mares), and if he acts like a jerk at a show people remember because he IS a stallion.

                          If he had the performance record to back up his nice movement and bloodlines he'd be worth much more as a sire, but that would take several years under an experienced rider who could move him up the levels. Not all stallions make bold and brave event horses (just like not all geldings do) and if he fails miserably in the show ring that would affect his stud fee as well.

                          I think that AGE does matter to a point. People are going to wonder and ask why he doesn't have foals on the ground already, why he isn't at a certain level already, etc. They might feel better with the right answers, they might not.

                          I have no idea about your intentions but I thought I'd give you some things to keep in mind.


                          • Original Poster

                            ETR, Everything will depend on the owner. I believe he only will run a few more times. I definitely was just looking for opinions. Just because I think he is stallion material doesnt mean everyone else does. If I end up with a buyer who wants him as a stallion then that cool. But if nobody wants him for that purpose then he obviously would make soneone a great gelding. Since it cant be undone... I wanted to see what people thought if him. Nothing is scheduled....and gis owner is a vet ......thanks for the weigh in!
                            RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10


                            • #15
                              Wow, he is lovely! Vigors was one of my favorite horses of my childhood, I watched him in SoCal racing and made a special trip to visit him when I was in KY in the 1980s. First time I have ever seen him in a pedigree! He was a gorgeous whiteTB with amazing presence.
                              On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog


                              • #16
                                In that case I'd have the owner put him up for sale as a stallion with an option to geld before he leaves the farm. That way you cover all your bases!


                                • #17
                                  Nothing to add except YOWZER!

                                  Super nice horse (doesn't necessarily mean he should be a stud, but super nice horse).

                                  I'm in no way involved in the world of breeding, so take my .02 with a grain of salt, but my threshold for keeping a stallion is pretty low. There are already so many phenomenal horses already out there that someone would have to really be committed to giving this guy a legitimate show history to justify breeding him.

                                  But he is yummy for sure.
                                  Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                                  The Grove at Five Points


                                  • #18
                                    that is a very nice boy! maybe contact Denny Emmerson - he knows a lot about TB breeding for sport - he probably can help you evaluate etc.

                                    if it were me i would keep him entire and give him a chance..... we dont see TBS that nice very often....


                                    • Original Poster

                                      I personally do not plan on breeding him. Although the thought did cross my mind with one mare I have....even just for a second. Lol. I have a race stallion I bred my two mares to. Not even sure if my family plans on offering our stud for public mares. We are being picky about who we breed to. I have a feeling we may offer this horse as a stud first and then geld if there is no interest. I don't think there is a set plan for now.
                                      RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10


                                      • #20
                                        I would swoop him in a heartbeat.

                                        I agree with the pedigree comments above, and he does look really nice. Yes, there are tons of nicely moving TBs, but if he is a stud who passes on his good traits and stamps his offspring...then yes. 100% yes.

                                        Mr. Prospector, unfortunately, is in almost everybody, but he does tend to provide a solid base for the breed, especially in the TBs geared towards being sporting animals, not just racers. The Bold Ruler blood you've got from Secretariat, though some generations back now, is actually a good indicator of his durability (imho). I have found that the OTTBs who have Bold Ruler (Nashrullah, and if you get Secretariat, Princequillo) they end up being far more durable for the cross country. Princequillo babies also seem to offer quick muscle response - he was a sprinter, and he passed that on to everyone. Northern Dancer is another expected horse, but nothing to poo poo.

                                        I think my only question would be the quality of his mind - but it looks like how he was started probably had a huge effect on him. Storm Cat babies, again imho, are either completely nuts or they're workable and engaging.

                                        Again, though, I'd take him. lol.
                                        The Rodeo Project - Tracking an Event Horse