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Andrea Leatherman Update

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  • #41
    I don't know the rider or the horse, but I honestly got very upset when I read that first post.

    No one should have to wake up in a hospital and be told that. I can't imagine having to tell someone.

    My heart goes out to everyone connected or effected by the loss.
    http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn

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    • #42
      Deltawave, you are getting thru on your quest to eradicate heart attack as the description of these cardiac-related deaths. I read the article headline and thought immediately, oh no that can't be right horses don't have heart attacks. DW says so!!

      I don't plan to join USEA this year, but I'll send in a dribble for the CV research project. My heart just breaks for Andrea.
      If you believe everything you read, better not read. -- Japanese Proverb

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      • #43
        I'm glad it was discovered to be a cardiac event. Hopefully this will help to squash some of the unintentionally unkind speculation that has been going on here over the past few days.

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        • #44
          Thank you for the donation, Debbie and everyone else. Dribbles are fine.
          Click here before you buy.

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          • #45
            My question, not specific to this incident, is don't cardiac events (or whatever we should be calling them) seem to involve fences more often than not? I know it has happened galloping on the flat, especially during warm weather and toward the end or even after the course. But it seems we hear more reports of it happening a fence. Is that because of the extra stress of take-off/jumping?

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            • #46
              Maybe, although IIRC High Scope and at least one other I can think of (at Prelim) collapsed between fences, so it's hard to say it's more often than not without looking at the actual database, which I don't have.

              It is possible that galloping could be sustained far longer by an animal that's beginning to be "in trouble" just because they're so fit and courageous, but that the act of powering off the ground is beyond its ability to compensate for, leading to a crash or fall. A "last straw" sort of picture.

              This sort of discussion crushes me with the possibilities for monitoring and learning that we just don't have the capacity for yet.
              Click here before you buy.

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              • #47
                Just to add into the human cardiac arrest issue. My dad passed suddenly of a cardiac arrest little over a year ago. On vacation with my mom and daughter. He wasn't feeling well but he just thought he was getting sick. For 2 days he pushed onward. They went to eat and he had a cardiac arrest in the restaurant. He was 50 years old. Even with him being a human we couldn't really get a straight answer from Drs what caused this. There was a few guesses of what typically causes the problem, maybe a blood clot, maybe an arrhythmia. But no really for sure. So I can see maybe how it could be hard in a horse to say exactly what caused an event also. I do hate when people ask how'd he die being so young that i have to say cardiac arrest because it can be so vague or a heart attack because there are so many reasons. I guess sometimes we just may never know for sure.
                Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                  Maybe, although IIRC High Scope and at least one other I can think of (at Prelim) collapsed between fences, so it's hard to say it's more often than not without looking at the actual database, which I don't have.
                  I'm pretty sure Mike Winter's Kingpin also collapsed between fences at Rolex a few years back. And what about Megan Moore's Grasshopper? Was that fence related or no?

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                  • #49
                    I thought Kingpin was fence related but I could be wrong.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by JFCeventer View Post
                      I'm pretty sure Mike Winter's Kingpin also collapsed between fences at Rolex a few years back. And what about Megan Moore's Grasshopper? Was that fence related or no?
                      Both were fence-related.

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                      • #51
                        Thank you for the update. So sorry for what she has to endure..physically and emotionally.
                        Lori T
                        www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com
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                        www.facebook.com/LTEquine for product updates on the lines I rep

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                        • #52
                          Pretty sure High Scope was fence related, though also early in the course I think?

                          ETA: there was one that collapsed after the finish at Jersey Fresh on a hot day that was definitely not fence related

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                          • #53
                            Hickstead, too, died after finishing a round, although of course his was not XC. I've got to get myself going getting a heart monitor implanted in one of my horses just to see if it can function. They're out there, they work in humans, but the logistics of an animal as big as a horse with the sheer mass of their chest and heart is absolutely daunting.
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                            • #54
                              Wasnt there a prelim YR horse that died in between fences? I want to say it was at VA HT and an ex-upper level horse (maybe Abigail Lufkins?? -- not sure, just pulling from my lacking memory)

                              Regardless, I am so sorry for Andrea. I cant even imagine the emotions she felt waking up in a hospital and hearing news like that. My heart pours out to here and everyone associated with her/neveah

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                              • #55
                                I was at the fence when Kingpin died. (Very sad- and I will never forget it.)
                                The fence was on the backside of the small water -- the one between the coffin and the grandstand, and the track curved behind the water, down the small hill there, to the fence. Kingpin was clearly having trouble before the turn-- say 10-15 strides out. It looks initially like he was stung by a bee- head came up, he shot forward and slightly out of control-looking. Mike wrestled him into the turn, still 4-5 strides away, he seemed to settle a bit and saw the jump. He jumped but did not land. I actually had photos, but I deleted them that day... I just couldn't bear it. Now I wish I had saved them, but I didn't realize they might be good for anything besides morbid curiosity.
                                So, the jumping effort may have caused him to go down, but I really feel strongly that he event happened before the fence. It was so sad. He whinnied at the end, and even though the curtains were up, all of us standing there just knew.

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                                • #56
                                  Oh jumpsnake....I just can't imagine watching that. My heart goes out to you because moments like that haunt us forever.
                                  Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

                                  You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.

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                                  • #57
                                    Don't forget Direct Merger died between fences too. Was absolutely one of my favorite horses.. was so sad to hear it happened. Same with Rowdy Boy, though not sure if his was cardiac related either?
                                    AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

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                                    • #58
                                      High Scope was definitely fence related. Whether or not he had a cardiac event leading up to the fence is something I can't say for sure, but he hit the jump.

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                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by ellemayo View Post
                                        High Scope was definitely fence related. Whether or not he had a cardiac event leading up to the fence is something I can't say for sure, but he hit the jump.
                                        I apologize for my misstatement.
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                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                          I apologize for my misstatement.
                                          No apology necessary. I only know because I volunteered at that event as a kid and was traumatized by the whole thing.

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