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Know your 4* Horses

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  • Know your 4* Horses

    We've been compiling a lot of data on 4* horses from 2006 on and thought it would be fun to share some of it. So here it is, the first installment in the "Know your 4* Horses" series. We'll start easy

    We all know riders prefer geldings, but how much?
    Pick a catagory, what percentage of 4* horses are geldings?
    92
    50%-60%
    4.35%
    4
    60%-70%
    13.04%
    12
    70%-80%
    35.87%
    33
    80%-90%
    36.96%
    34
    90%-100%
    9.78%
    9
    www.witsendeventing.com
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  • #2
    When do we get the answer?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm thinking I want to change my answer I said 80-90% are gelding...I'm now thinking I wouldn't be surprised if it is 90-100%.
      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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      • #4
        Many people I know seem to think mares are bad mounts.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by eqsiu View Post
          Many people I know seem to think mares are bad mounts.
          I don't think that is true. I do think in general geldings can be easier. I personally prefer mares. I can think of several 4* mares off the top of my head easily...and think of many top riders who have had mares.

          But geldings really have no other purpose in life than to be ridden...(and be a lawn decoration). With a mare, you can make a decision to stop competing her and use her for breeding.
          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
            With a mare, you can make a decision to stop competing her and use her for breeding.
            I suspect this is a lot of it. Until recently and the advent of Embryo Transfer there was no other way to pass along genetics of a good mare than to pull her from competition...
            "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

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            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by eqsiu View Post
              When do we get the answer?
              Saturday
              www.witsendeventing.com
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              • Original Poster

                #8
                Seems like riders are either mare people or not with quite strong opinions! We've known riders that won't sit on a mare and riders that think they make the most loyal mounts.

                Now I'm curious what percentage of retired mares get bred. By the way, if anyone has upper level mares standing around grazing who need a good home, let us know!! They aren't easy to come by.....
                www.witsendeventing.com
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                • #9
                  I guessed about 20% of the upper level horses are mares.

                  We have a Wits End horse that we hope will be one of the fold eventually.

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                  • #10
                    I personally think there are far fewer mares than most people think. There are never more than 4 or five at Badminton and Burghley and usually less at the 4*s that I've run numbers on.
                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                    Thread killer Extraordinaire

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                    • #11
                      I'm thinking last year at Kentucky there were more mares than usual, but that was still maybe 6 out of almost 60 competitors. So I'm guessing around 90%.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by LAZ View Post
                        I guessed about 20% of the upper level horses are mares.

                        We have a Wits End horse that we hope will be one of the fold eventually.
                        Copperfield!!!
                        We miss seeing him hanging out with his buddy Comet but are glad he got such a wonderful home! Give him a pat for us.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                          I personally think there are far fewer mares than most people think. There are never more than 4 or five at Badminton and Burghley and usually less at the 4*s that I've run numbers on.
                          Hmm I picked 70 to 80% without thinking about it too much. I'm also a show jumper though, and apparently we have less bias against mares? I think in show jumping that don't are as long as it doesn't touch the rails riders don't care. And maybe the have more incentive to put up with mare behavior as long as they are winning money in the Grand prixs?

                          Anyways I did a breakdown on the CN international at Spruce out of curiosity. Out of 29 horses there were 4 mares, 12 stallions, and 14 geldings. So not actually a higher number then you guys seem to think for eventing. 2 of those mares were in the top 10 however. And when I looked at one of the friday 1.50m classes there were 8 mares out of 34

                          But perhaps the difference is I can think of many mares competing at the top level, Eric had Corianna and Derly and I think of the many young horses Eric just purchased two are mares, Reed Kessler has Cylanna. One of Jos Lansik's top horses is a mare, the lovely Cumano baby Nassa is a mare, Harry Smolder's had two mares, Mclain had Sapphire, Beezie took Via Vola to the olympics, Jennifer Crooks seems to only ride mares.

                          It's just interesting that there seems to be less mares (and also stallions) in Eventing.

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                          • #14
                            I think we're seeing more mares again lately, especially in show jumping.

                            I think it's really interesting that in polo the stats are skewed the other way, that polo horses are 90% mares.
                            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SlamDunk View Post
                              It's just interesting that there seems to be less mares (and also stallions) in Eventing.

                              Really only at the 4* level. There are a lot of mares at levels below. There are not as many stallions. Perhaps is because both mares and stallions can have more self preservation which can limit them xc....or really, to find a horse that can do the xc and jumping yet still have the rideability for dressage is just plain hard to find.
                              ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                The answer is

                                85% Geldings
                                12.5% Mares
                                2.5% Stallions

                                Some interesting gender specific statistics.

                                Completions:
                                Stallions have the highest completion rate (completions per start).
                                Mares have the lowest.

                                Top Placings:
                                All 3 have roughly equal percentage of top 5 finishes.
                                No Stallion has won an event since the short format started.
                                Mares have a 50% better win rate than geldings.
                                www.witsendeventing.com
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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Wits End Eventing View Post
                                  No Stallion has won an event since the short format started.
                                  Not quite true. A stallion won the very FIRST short-format event in the US: Windfall in 2004, the Rolex "modified" format without steeplechase.
                                  “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                                  ? Albert Einstein

                                  ~AJ~

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                                  • #18
                                    What is the source of your data? What is the rationale for starting with 2006? TIA
                                    If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Rallycairn View Post
                                      What is the source of your data? What is the rationale for starting with 2006? TIA
                                      Data are collected from a combination of 4* web site results pages, FEI database, various on line pedigree sites, rider web pages and, in some cases, emailed responses from riders about their horses when I can't find information or when I find conflicting information from other sources. It includes 37 events from 2006-2012. Reason for starting with 2006 is Rolex, Badminton, and Burghley ran the long format until 2005, and we are collecting data on the "modern" event horse.

                                      Not quite true. A stallion won the very FIRST short-format event in the US: Windfall in 2004, the Rolex "modified" format without steeplechase.
                                      True, it would have been more accurate for me to say since 2006.
                                      www.witsendeventing.com
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                                      • #20
                                        Maybe, and this is just a thought, more mares are polo ponies cuz they 'tend' to be smaller than geldings? Just thinking out loud here

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