• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

New FEI-mandated time schedules for CICs?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • New FEI-mandated time schedules for CICs?

    Red Hills is coming up, and announced that there will be "a new FEI-mandated time schedule for selected levels at the three days of Eventing competition. The CIC Divisions will Show Jump on Friday afternoon, after Dressage and before Saturday’s Cross-Country."

    Was this really mandated? Anyone got insights into the thinking?

    Besides my personal objections to changing around the format at the upper levels, this really impacts the structure of Red Hills. I'm not involved with the organizing, so my thoughts can't be attributed to the organizers, but I believe the success of Red Hills is in large part due to its ability to attract sponsors and community involvement. T

    he Sunday showjumping was a really big deal in years past, with the sponsor tent packed, a "big" atmosphere, awards ceremonies, etc. We'll see how it goes this year, but I am concerned that Red Hills will lose some of its support and community appeal by having to change the format. (Needless to say, Friday does not get the same crowds as Saturday and Sunday.)

    I will note that I haven't competed in years, and frankly no longer aspire to do so at the upper levels, but am worried about the impact of mandated format change at some of the "destination" events--especially those based on large community involvement/sponsorship. A colleague suggested it might allow the top riders to leave earlier, but I'm guessing most of them attend with students and/or are riding other horses themselves at the national levels.

    Custom and semi-custom washable wool felt saddle pads!

  • #2
    the discussion I heard suggests that it will involve the community more, which is to say that during the cross country, they can be announcing exactly how many seconds the rider might have in hand and if they have to push for the time or if they can "coast" a little because they have a big cushion from the dressage and show-jumping. The idea is to make the attraction of xc more a part of the "final" scoring/awards s there is a thought that would be more interesting to folks.
    OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!


    • #3
      The FEI has added a rule requiring show jumping to be run prior to XC for CICs beginning in 2014. For 2013, the new format is recommended but not required. I suspect Red Hills is using this year as an opportunity to play around with how best to run in the future.

      I imagine the FEI created this rule to further differentiate between CIC and CCI. Many CIC in Europe are already run this way, and even done in one day. For a working amateur, I like this rule, as I hope that it will lead to CICs run over the weekend or even one day, lessening the cost of stabling and reducing the vacation days I must take.


      • Original Poster

        scubed--that does make sense--Saturday XC is always very well attended, but it's quite likely the format change will add to the excitement and spectator interest.

        DC--I agree, for competitors with day jobs, having 1- or 2-day events can make life easier to juggle. I guess I was mostly surprised because Red Hills has always seemed unique to me--more of a "destination" event. Who knows, maybe the change will lead to bigger attendance on Friday....

        So far I've ridden in 3 parts of the US: VA/MD, CA, and FL. Do you think most of the events that are currently 3 days (many in CA and FL for instance) will move the CICs to Friday-Saturday, or Saturday-Sunday?
        Custom and semi-custom washable wool felt saddle pads!


        • #5
          And of course, if the horse gets broken on XC, it can still finish and go home to recuperate.

          Whether this is a good thing or not is questionable in my mind, especially since there is also a new rule for jogs at CICs.
          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
          Thread killer Extraordinaire


          • #6
            So then what is the sense of having an inspection (jog) before XC, or will one even be required? The purpose was to check that a horse was "fit to compete" in stadium AFTER the endurance phase. We are continually getting farther and farther removed from the original intent of this sport.


            • #7
              Dislike -- further distance from the roots of the sport.

              Dressage is mandated to be the first of the three for a reason. Stadium jumping also serves a specific purpose and should run after XC, particularly at the upper levels.



              • #8
                Originally posted by NMK View Post
                So then what is the sense of having an inspection (jog) before XC, or will one even be required? The purpose was to check that a horse was "fit to compete" in stadium AFTER the endurance phase. We are continually getting farther and farther removed from the original intent of this sport.
                2013 FEI Rules

                523.2 Horse Inspections
                The Horse Inspections shall be open to viewing by the public.
                523.2.1 First Horse Inspection
                This takes place before the Dressage Test, normally the day before. It is conducted by the Ground Jury and the Veterinary Delegate acting together as a committee with the President of the Ground Jury in charge.

                The Horses, presented by their respective Athlete, must be inspected in hand, at rest and in movement on a firm level, clean but not slippery surface. The committee has the right and the duty to eliminate from the Competition any Horse that they
                judge is unfit, whether on account of lameness, lack of condition or for any other reason.

                In a doubtful case the Ground Jury may direct that the Horse be put in an officially supervised holding area for examination by the Associate Veterinarian. Should the Athlete decide to represent the Horse, the Associate Veterinarian will report any
                findings to the Ground Jury and the Veterinary Delegate prior to the Horse being re-inspected by the committee.

                Horses in the holding area will be under the supervision and control of a Steward and the Associate Veterinarian.

                In the Event of equality of votes within the committee, the President of the Ground Jury will have a second and casting vote, and the decision will be announced immediately.

                523.2.2 Second Horse Inspection
                This takes place before the Jumping Test. It is conducted by the same committee and under the same conditions as the first Horse Inspection.

                523.2.3 Option for Horse Inspection at Short Competitions (CIC)
                At a short Competition the First Horse Inspection is optional, however if one is to be held the details must be published in the schedule of the Competition.

                In the Event that there is no First Horse Inspection, an FEI Official Veterinarian must assess the Horse’s fitness to compete within the Examination on Arrival pursuant to 523.1 of these Eventing rules. Horses deemed by the FEI Official Veterinarian to be unfit to compete must be reported to the Ground Jury.

                NOTE: For 2013 the Second Horse Inspection will be compulsory if the Jumping Test is the last test.
                So with no required jog at the beginning, the FEI vet has to approve each horse to begin the competition. Talk about a complicated mess! After this year, there may never be a horse inspection at CICs. So good for horse welfare, especially at the 3* level.

                As to why showjumping before XC, this is the German vision of eventing. They seem to think that it will make competitions more exciting for spectators. The FEI seems to have bought into the German vision. I think that in ten years, with the same Eventing Committee making decisions, the CCI will become a dodo.

                My question is with XC last, where do the spectators go to see the competition unfold? At least with sj last, all the spectators are gathered in a single stadium watching the final deciding moments together in one place. Which is then followed by the awards ceremony. By having XC last, it almost seems that courses would be designed to end in the stadium or there will be no point to the awards ceremonies and the victory gallop. It would almost be cruel to ask a horse to wait around until after XC finishes just to participate in an awards ceremony.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire


                • #9
                  So if dressage and stadium are one day and xc the next, it sounds as if there may only be an in-barn (arrival) inspection? The way I read it, the first inspection for a "short competition" is optional, and the second only mandatory if the jumping (I take that as stadium) is last? No formal jogs? Really?


                  • #10
                    Really. After 2013 all CICs have to have XC last.

                    Let's just say that a competition is running multiple CICs. How busy will the FEI official vet be doing the arrival inspection for all the horses at all the levels?
                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                    Thread killer Extraordinaire


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      2013 FEI Rules

                      So with no required jog at the beginning, the FEI vet has to approve each horse to begin the competition. Talk about a complicated mess! After this year, there may never be a horse inspection at CICs. So good for horse welfare, especially at the 3* level.
                      They already do this, and have, for years. It's called an "in barn" inspection. Every FEI horse is checked in by the FEI vet at a CCI or CIC. Most of the time, it's a quick TPR, run a hand over the animal, and turn in the passport. At some CICs, I've had the vet jog every horse, too. It really isn't a "complicated mess," and all FEI competitors are accustomed to it. You might have to wait in line a few minutes-- or in places like Fair Hill, where the trailers get backed up-- but it really isn't a big deal.

                      I've only done one or two CICs that ran xc last-- VA CIC**, maybe?-- and the vet watched horses jog after the start flags into the cool out box. That was the "2nd horse inspection."

                      I can see both good and bad to the SJ-first format. I wish it could stay as-is, where individual events can determine their schedule, not the FEI. I think the d-xc-sj format is a true part of eventing, and it should stay that way; but having occasional events run sj first is more economical and efficient, so I like them too. I don't like how the FEI has "standardized" the sport so much, and stepped into areas that I think should stay at the discretion of national federations. I do think they are slowly destroying the sport (well, they already have).
                      “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                      ? Albert Einstein



                      • #12
                        Actually, the CIC is the only FEI competition that does not require a formal horse inspection.

                        According to the FEI Veterinary Regulations, the Inspection upon Arrival, which includes getting the passport, etc. has not involved a lameness evaluation. See Article 1032.
                        Article 1032
                        Examination on Arrival
                        1. The FVD/ VD, or a deputy (veterinarian), must examine all Horses arriving at the Event venue, before entering the Event stables as soon as possible after arrival.
                        a) For Endurance CEI Events, the Examination on Arrival may be coupled with the first Horse Inspection.
                        b) For CIC Eventing Competitions, where there is no Horse Inspection, an
                        assessment of the Horse’s fitness to compete will be made by the veterinarian
                        during the Examination on Arrival.
                        2. The objective of the Examination on Arrival is to:
                        a) Verify the identity of each Horse from its passport, using the diagram/ description and (when present).the microchip ID
                        b) Check that the vaccination status of the Horse is in accordance with the
                        requirements of these VRs and/ or the GRs.
                        c) Verify whether all other details are correctly recorded in the passport.
                        d) Enquire if the Horse has been in contact with other animals suffering from
                        infectious disease or come from an area or establishment that is not free of such diseases.
                        e) Ensure that the Horse is not suffering from any infectious disease, posing a biosecurity risk or any other medical or welfare issues.
                        This may include:
                        a) a clinical examination to assess heart, respiratory rate and body temperature,
                        b) any other pertinent clinical parameters and
                        c) only when there is a concern regarding a suspected injury or illness sustained during travel, a palpation of the limbs and/ or body may be undertaken.
                        3. An examination for lameness, such as a trot-up, is not part of this examination (with the exception of some CICs as determined in these VRs and the Eventing Rules).
                        4. Any biosecurity concern must be immediately reported, before admission or entry, to the VC/ VD and dealt with in accordance with these VRs; any other significant clinical findings must be reported to the VC/ VD as soon as possible.
                        5. For any Horse considered to have been in contact with other animals with, or animals showing signs of equine infectious disease, where the risk is deemed significant these Horses should be stabled in the isolation stables.
                        6. Following any Veterinary Examination:
                        a) Any Horse considered to be a health risk to other Horses at the Event must be stabled in the isolation stable.
                        b) Any Horse not considered fit to compete must be reported to the GJ before the first Horse Inspection. The VC/ VD should discuss the case with the GJ so the GJ can make a Decision, if necessary, to Eliminate the Horse before the first Horse Inspection.
                        As you can see, there is a significant change for CICs in the vet's responsibilities during the Arrival Examination. It's not what you have been used to experiencing.
                        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                        Thread killer Extraordinaire


                        • #13
                          No soundness exam, AJ. Hmmm. Interesting, eh?
                          Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                          Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)