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New FEI-mandated time schedules for CICs?

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  • New FEI-mandated time schedules for CICs?

    Red Hills is coming up, and announced that there will be "a new FEI-mandated time schedule for selected levels at the three days of Eventing competition. The CIC Divisions will Show Jump on Friday afternoon, after Dressage and before Saturday’s Cross-Country."

    Was this really mandated? Anyone got insights into the thinking?

    Besides my personal objections to changing around the format at the upper levels, this really impacts the structure of Red Hills. I'm not involved with the organizing, so my thoughts can't be attributed to the organizers, but I believe the success of Red Hills is in large part due to its ability to attract sponsors and community involvement. T

    he Sunday showjumping was a really big deal in years past, with the sponsor tent packed, a "big" atmosphere, awards ceremonies, etc. We'll see how it goes this year, but I am concerned that Red Hills will lose some of its support and community appeal by having to change the format. (Needless to say, Friday does not get the same crowds as Saturday and Sunday.)

    I will note that I haven't competed in years, and frankly no longer aspire to do so at the upper levels, but am worried about the impact of mandated format change at some of the "destination" events--especially those based on large community involvement/sponsorship. A colleague suggested it might allow the top riders to leave earlier, but I'm guessing most of them attend with students and/or are riding other horses themselves at the national levels.

    Thoughts?
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  • #2
    the discussion I heard suggests that it will involve the community more, which is to say that during the cross country, they can be announcing exactly how many seconds the rider might have in hand and if they have to push for the time or if they can "coast" a little because they have a big cushion from the dressage and show-jumping. The idea is to make the attraction of xc more a part of the "final" scoring/awards s there is a thought that would be more interesting to folks.
    OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!

    Comment


    • #3
      The FEI has added a rule requiring show jumping to be run prior to XC for CICs beginning in 2014. For 2013, the new format is recommended but not required. I suspect Red Hills is using this year as an opportunity to play around with how best to run in the future.

      I imagine the FEI created this rule to further differentiate between CIC and CCI. Many CIC in Europe are already run this way, and even done in one day. For a working amateur, I like this rule, as I hope that it will lead to CICs run over the weekend or even one day, lessening the cost of stabling and reducing the vacation days I must take.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        scubed--that does make sense--Saturday XC is always very well attended, but it's quite likely the format change will add to the excitement and spectator interest.

        DC--I agree, for competitors with day jobs, having 1- or 2-day events can make life easier to juggle. I guess I was mostly surprised because Red Hills has always seemed unique to me--more of a "destination" event. Who knows, maybe the change will lead to bigger attendance on Friday....

        So far I've ridden in 3 parts of the US: VA/MD, CA, and FL. Do you think most of the events that are currently 3 days (many in CA and FL for instance) will move the CICs to Friday-Saturday, or Saturday-Sunday?
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        • #5
          And of course, if the horse gets broken on XC, it can still finish and go home to recuperate.

          Whether this is a good thing or not is questionable in my mind, especially since there is also a new rule for jogs at CICs.
          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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          Comment


          • #6
            So then what is the sense of having an inspection (jog) before XC, or will one even be required? The purpose was to check that a horse was "fit to compete" in stadium AFTER the endurance phase. We are continually getting farther and farther removed from the original intent of this sport.
            www.canterusa.org

            Comment


            • #7
              Dislike -- further distance from the roots of the sport.

              Dressage is mandated to be the first of the three for a reason. Stadium jumping also serves a specific purpose and should run after XC, particularly at the upper levels.

              .

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NMK View Post
                So then what is the sense of having an inspection (jog) before XC, or will one even be required? The purpose was to check that a horse was "fit to compete" in stadium AFTER the endurance phase. We are continually getting farther and farther removed from the original intent of this sport.
                2013 FEI Rules

                523.2 Horse Inspections
                The Horse Inspections shall be open to viewing by the public.
                523.2.1 First Horse Inspection
                This takes place before the Dressage Test, normally the day before. It is conducted by the Ground Jury and the Veterinary Delegate acting together as a committee with the President of the Ground Jury in charge.

                The Horses, presented by their respective Athlete, must be inspected in hand, at rest and in movement on a firm level, clean but not slippery surface. The committee has the right and the duty to eliminate from the Competition any Horse that they
                judge is unfit, whether on account of lameness, lack of condition or for any other reason.

                In a doubtful case the Ground Jury may direct that the Horse be put in an officially supervised holding area for examination by the Associate Veterinarian. Should the Athlete decide to represent the Horse, the Associate Veterinarian will report any
                findings to the Ground Jury and the Veterinary Delegate prior to the Horse being re-inspected by the committee.

                Horses in the holding area will be under the supervision and control of a Steward and the Associate Veterinarian.

                In the Event of equality of votes within the committee, the President of the Ground Jury will have a second and casting vote, and the decision will be announced immediately.

                523.2.2 Second Horse Inspection
                This takes place before the Jumping Test. It is conducted by the same committee and under the same conditions as the first Horse Inspection.

                523.2.3 Option for Horse Inspection at Short Competitions (CIC)
                At a short Competition the First Horse Inspection is optional, however if one is to be held the details must be published in the schedule of the Competition.

                In the Event that there is no First Horse Inspection, an FEI Official Veterinarian must assess the Horse’s fitness to compete within the Examination on Arrival pursuant to 523.1 of these Eventing rules. Horses deemed by the FEI Official Veterinarian to be unfit to compete must be reported to the Ground Jury.

                NOTE: For 2013 the Second Horse Inspection will be compulsory if the Jumping Test is the last test.
                So with no required jog at the beginning, the FEI vet has to approve each horse to begin the competition. Talk about a complicated mess! After this year, there may never be a horse inspection at CICs. So good for horse welfare, especially at the 3* level.

                As to why showjumping before XC, this is the German vision of eventing. They seem to think that it will make competitions more exciting for spectators. The FEI seems to have bought into the German vision. I think that in ten years, with the same Eventing Committee making decisions, the CCI will become a dodo.

                My question is with XC last, where do the spectators go to see the competition unfold? At least with sj last, all the spectators are gathered in a single stadium watching the final deciding moments together in one place. Which is then followed by the awards ceremony. By having XC last, it almost seems that courses would be designed to end in the stadium or there will be no point to the awards ceremonies and the victory gallop. It would almost be cruel to ask a horse to wait around until after XC finishes just to participate in an awards ceremony.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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                Comment


                • #9
                  So if dressage and stadium are one day and xc the next, it sounds as if there may only be an in-barn (arrival) inspection? The way I read it, the first inspection for a "short competition" is optional, and the second only mandatory if the jumping (I take that as stadium) is last? No formal jogs? Really?
                  www.canterusa.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Really. After 2013 all CICs have to have XC last.

                    Let's just say that a competition is running multiple CICs. How busy will the FEI official vet be doing the arrival inspection for all the horses at all the levels?
                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      2013 FEI Rules



                      So with no required jog at the beginning, the FEI vet has to approve each horse to begin the competition. Talk about a complicated mess! After this year, there may never be a horse inspection at CICs. So good for horse welfare, especially at the 3* level.
                      They already do this, and have, for years. It's called an "in barn" inspection. Every FEI horse is checked in by the FEI vet at a CCI or CIC. Most of the time, it's a quick TPR, run a hand over the animal, and turn in the passport. At some CICs, I've had the vet jog every horse, too. It really isn't a "complicated mess," and all FEI competitors are accustomed to it. You might have to wait in line a few minutes-- or in places like Fair Hill, where the trailers get backed up-- but it really isn't a big deal.


                      I've only done one or two CICs that ran xc last-- VA CIC**, maybe?-- and the vet watched horses jog after the start flags into the cool out box. That was the "2nd horse inspection."


                      I can see both good and bad to the SJ-first format. I wish it could stay as-is, where individual events can determine their schedule, not the FEI. I think the d-xc-sj format is a true part of eventing, and it should stay that way; but having occasional events run sj first is more economical and efficient, so I like them too. I don't like how the FEI has "standardized" the sport so much, and stepped into areas that I think should stay at the discretion of national federations. I do think they are slowly destroying the sport (well, they already have).
                      “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                      ? Albert Einstein

                      ~AJ~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Actually, the CIC is the only FEI competition that does not require a formal horse inspection.

                        According to the FEI Veterinary Regulations, the Inspection upon Arrival, which includes getting the passport, etc. has not involved a lameness evaluation. See Article 1032.
                        Article 1032
                        Examination on Arrival
                        1. The FVD/ VD, or a deputy (veterinarian), must examine all Horses arriving at the Event venue, before entering the Event stables as soon as possible after arrival.
                        a) For Endurance CEI Events, the Examination on Arrival may be coupled with the first Horse Inspection.
                        b) For CIC Eventing Competitions, where there is no Horse Inspection, an
                        assessment of the Horse’s fitness to compete will be made by the veterinarian
                        during the Examination on Arrival.
                        2. The objective of the Examination on Arrival is to:
                        a) Verify the identity of each Horse from its passport, using the diagram/ description and (when present).the microchip ID
                        b) Check that the vaccination status of the Horse is in accordance with the
                        requirements of these VRs and/ or the GRs.
                        c) Verify whether all other details are correctly recorded in the passport.
                        d) Enquire if the Horse has been in contact with other animals suffering from
                        infectious disease or come from an area or establishment that is not free of such diseases.
                        e) Ensure that the Horse is not suffering from any infectious disease, posing a biosecurity risk or any other medical or welfare issues.
                        This may include:
                        a) a clinical examination to assess heart, respiratory rate and body temperature,
                        b) any other pertinent clinical parameters and
                        c) only when there is a concern regarding a suspected injury or illness sustained during travel, a palpation of the limbs and/ or body may be undertaken.
                        3. An examination for lameness, such as a trot-up, is not part of this examination (with the exception of some CICs as determined in these VRs and the Eventing Rules).
                        4. Any biosecurity concern must be immediately reported, before admission or entry, to the VC/ VD and dealt with in accordance with these VRs; any other significant clinical findings must be reported to the VC/ VD as soon as possible.
                        5. For any Horse considered to have been in contact with other animals with, or animals showing signs of equine infectious disease, where the risk is deemed significant these Horses should be stabled in the isolation stables.
                        6. Following any Veterinary Examination:
                        a) Any Horse considered to be a health risk to other Horses at the Event must be stabled in the isolation stable.
                        b) Any Horse not considered fit to compete must be reported to the GJ before the first Horse Inspection. The VC/ VD should discuss the case with the GJ so the GJ can make a Decision, if necessary, to Eliminate the Horse before the first Horse Inspection.
                        As you can see, there is a significant change for CICs in the vet's responsibilities during the Arrival Examination. It's not what you have been used to experiencing.
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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No soundness exam, AJ. Hmmm. Interesting, eh?
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