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New Fall Rule at BN and N passed

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  • #21
    Says my master blaster airborne qualified novice competitor husband who stopped counting after 2500 parachute jumps, including free fall from high altitude - this is a stupid rule. Ask any paratrooper. Far greater risk of injury attempting to land on your feet, this is why the army guys get taught a PLF (parachute landing fall).

    And it does not address those with multiple rides or falls in the warm up. Really??
    www.amiddle-agedmadwomantakesthereins.blogspot.com

    www.pegasusridge.com

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    • #22
      And what is the big difference between landing on your feet at Novice and landing on your feet at Training? Yes, the speed is a little faster but that is only one of many variables ...

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by SunNSand View Post
        How are the short riders with giraffes for horses going to get back on anyway? The jump judge can't help them. I guess they better teach their horses to let them mount from a xc jump
        Back in the "old days" (when you could fall off and get back on), anyone could hand you your whip, your spectacles (that, I believe was the word used in the rule book ) and give you a leg up. I assume this applies still.
        Amanda

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post
          And what is the big difference between landing on your feet at Novice and landing on your feet at Training? Yes, the speed is a little faster but that is only one of many variables ...
          1 politics - easier to get it through the USEF Safety Committee with a very small change (camel's nose under the tent). It is the USEF Safety Committee that killed the last attempt at chnging the rule. Apprently the politics worked.

          1-Statistics. There is apparently a noticeable difference (though still low) in the rate of head injuries injuries at N and T
          Janet

          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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          • Original Poster

            #25
            Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
            Back in the "old days" (when you could fall off and get back on), anyone could hand you your whip, your spectacles (that, I believe was the word used in the rule book ) and give you a leg up. I assume this applies still.
            The rule book still says "spectacles".

            There is almost a year until the new rule goes into effect. During that time I am sure they will be carefully putting back IN all the references to "falls" (including assistance in remounting) that they have been removing since the previous rule change.
            Janet

            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
              Back in the "old days" (when you could fall off and get back on), anyone could hand you your whip, your spectacles (that, I believe was the word used in the rule book ) and give you a leg up. I assume this applies still.
              In order to avoid issues they will have to add something to the rulebook about giving the rider a leg up.
              I was looking at it as something that might be comical to watch. A good laugh before a run does wonders.

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              • #27
                I fear that the common sense that would make this rule just fine is lacking in some people and that is what will make this rule change a problem and give it potential for injury and technical head aches.

                In my mind they were shooting to address those falls that aren't "falls". We've all done it. Going mock negative three, had a horse duck out politely, grabbed the neck and swung down. So while I think that's what the rule change is likely trying to address, the common sense (lack there of, actually) aspect is going to be the big issue.

                No doubt it will make it harder on jump judges and has the potential to spawn more challenges to decisions made on course by said jump judges.
                "Aye God, Woodrow..."

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Landing on your feet.

                  This was again due to politics and compromise.

                  If you read the coverage of the USEA national meeting (from USEA, COTH or EN) you will see that "landing on your feet" was added, at the meeting, to get a couple of important votes.

                  ETA that I just saw in COTH that it only passed the USEF Safety Committee by ONE vote.

                  I agree that there are a lot of unintended consequences which were not talked through in the heat of the moment.

                  I would suggest sending your concerns to the USEA Safety Committee, and maybe they will be able to address it before goes into effect.

                  Note that the USEA Safety Committee is one of the major PROPONENTS of allowing riders to continue after a fall.

                  it is the USEF Safety Committee that blocked the rule change last year.

                  Similar names, but very different committees.
                  Last edited by Janet; Feb. 2, 2013, 03:39 PM. Reason: Passed by one vote
                  Janet

                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I can see it now

                    " I don't care if you have leather soles on the seat of your of your breeches, that is NOT your feet"

                    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

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                    • #30
                      When I landed on my feet( actually my mare slid and I just stepped off), I had to walk her over to another jump , climb up on it, and then get on. Fell off the jump and had to climb up on it again. Classy...
                      http://www.cngsporthorses.com

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                      • #31
                        now we all should go take vaulting lessons.
                        http://kaboomeventing.com/
                        http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                        Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                          now we all should go take vaulting lessons.
                          Well, you know, if you're a registered pro with USEF it makes you a pro across the board. Ergo and Forte, you are already a pro vaulter!
                          Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                          The Grove at Five Points

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                          • #33
                            Eh, back when you could fall off and keep going I had a pop off slow-mo after-the-fact fall at a fence. I landed on my feet but ended up on one knee (would this count? Oy). Jump judge, who happened to be a local official (now a TD), wasted no time in giving me a leg up. Pony is 17.2-- a long climb with xc length stirrups.

                            I have to say, though, as someone who has owned three event horses at or north of 17 hands, you most certainly DO teach them to stand while you mount from xc fences, arena fences, truck bumpers, and anything else you can find. Don't worry about us!
                            The big man -- my lost prince

                            The little brother, now my main man

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                            • #34
                              Ugh. Dumb rule. Going to be interesting to see how this all pans out and what effect it actually has.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Welcome to the 2013 season of Safety Theatre, brought to you by the USEF eventing rules committee.

                                We had a marvelous thread about this several years ago. canterlope never did share the data she claimed to have.

                                In honor of Groundhog Day, I'll say this again: so long as a rider can ride subsequent horses after a fall, and so long as a rider can fall once, twice, or however many times in the warm-up area, the one-fall rule is merely a scoring rule, not a safety rule.

                                Right now, you can fall in BN, land on your butt without consequence, and be done for the day and the weekend. However, you can fall in P-A and get back on 1 or 2 or 7 more horses at the competition.

                                The bright side of this is perhaps that the new rule is incrementally more sensible than the blanket one-fall rule. But we could look to statistics from British Eventing, which repealed the one-fall rule several years ago, and see if people really are suffering, catastrophically or otherwise, from being allowed to get back on their horse.

                                An increment of sanity isn't the answer when it comes to real safety vs. the appearance of safety vs. the eventing community's fair enjoyment of their sport.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  What JER says. But who ever expected rationality from the PTB?

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    JER hit the nail on the head. I was amazed a couple of years ago when a friend had a pretty rough fall in warm-up and went out on xc 10 minutes later. It is the appearance of safety (liability?) and nothing more.

                                    Not rational. It's an on paper sort of thing.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      "No, I'm NOT eliminated, I landed on my feet and then sat down to tie my boot lace!!!!!!"

                                      "I landed on my feet and then tripped!"

                                      I did land on my feet and now I'm adjusting my horses' bell boot!"

                                      "Oh my god, it's a four leaf clover, really, oh crap you just stepped on it, seriously why else would I be down here on my knees. . ."


                                      Etc, etc, etc. . .
                                      RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

                                      "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."

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                                      • #39
                                        http://eventingnation.com/home/the-o...as-passed.html

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by JER View Post
                                          Welcome to the 2013 season of Safety Theatre, brought to you by the USEF eventing rules committee.

                                          We had a marvelous thread about this several years ago. canterlope never did share the data she claimed to have.
                                          First of all, I offered to have a private conversation with you about this and you never took me up on the offer, so shame on you for making this statement that implies I made a claim that I was unwilling to prove or support. Second, in that thread, I did provide a link to analysis of some of the data that had been collected up to that point in time. However, instead of conceding the point that analysis was being conducted by the PTB (if you recall, the gist of that thread was an accusation that the PTB were passing knee-jerk rules with no analytical support), you and others attacked the results of the analysis.
                                          Originally posted by JER View Post
                                          But we could look to statistics from British Eventing, which repealed the one-fall rule several years ago, ...
                                          Wrong! British Eventing did not repeal the one-fall rule several years ago because they never enacted the rule in the first place.
                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?

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