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Emulating Top ULRs' galloping position

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  • #21
    I was thinking of Lucinda Green while reading this thread. I remember a picture from way back of her galloping and the lovely light position has stuck in my head all these years. Did the Brits from that "era"perhaps ride with their derrieres a little more back behind them while closing their body angles?

    I'm probably not describing that very well. I'll have to try to find some pics or video of her.

    Originally posted by AzuWish View Post
    I audited a Lucinda Green clinic a few months back and her advice: Don't follow fads, and if you're going to try to emulate a rider, make sure the rider is the same sex as you.

    She said female riders need to emulate female riders, male riders need to emulate male riders. Of course, she went on to say certain riders should never be emulated because for an ammie/LL rider to do it, it could prove disastrous. I'm blanking on names of riders, but I thought it was good advice.

    She mostly didn't like locking of knees and being too forward. (But said it works for certain UL riders because of physiology or what-have-you.)

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    • #22
      IMO - look at who is winning, consistently at the top of the sport. In this case look at the past Olympic Games where Brits took the team Gold and plus the top 5-10 riders. Also look at all of the major 3-4* top placers world-wide.
      IIRC all ride with a shorter stirrup, their horses move quickly across the ground and over the fences.
      Keep in mind both rider and horse worked for years developing the muscles, strength, balance and confidence to travel in their respective frames.

      Then look at the proponents of the straight leg galloping position and their results.
      "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
      Courtesy my cousin Tim

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      • #23
        So I googled straight leg galloping position. Not quite what I was picturing. It is basically the leg position polo players use when they swing, with most of the body's weight supported by pushing the knee into the saddle. I was picturing more of a standing up general position with the rider's weight still in the heels. If you weight is in the knee, your legs can't absorb the motion of the horse well and you end up transferring you concussion back into your horse. I don't think this position is a good thing. Unless you're swinging at a ball!

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by Molly Sorge View Post
          Check out the Chronicle's latest article on the topic--lots of interesting information!

          http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...alanced-gallop
          It's laid out in the tack room, kind of what started this thread...

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          • #25
            Awesome, Heliodoro, thanks!!!

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            • #26
              It seems to me the more upright you are then the higher your center of gravity is over the horse. You best hope that the horse doesn't stumble or your off.

              I know from foxhunting my preferred position is my butt back but out of the saddle. That way if the horse stumbles I have the flex in my hip, knee and ankle to take up the shock or pull on my position. It also gives me a nice ability to slow my horse by just opening up angles a bit.

              I played around with the straight legged style and hated it. My horse seemed to labor more when I tried that position.
              A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

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              • #27
                After doing a lot of fence judging I can tell you that at Training and higher if a horse has multiple refusals and/or sticky fences almost always the rider does not have a good 2 point (not off the horses back).
                I've wondered how much this is an indication of fitness and preparation for the level or just ability, but the correlation is definitely there. At BN and N, it appears that one can get away with a crappy 2 point position.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Heinz 57 View Post
                  Slightly off topic, and I know it's been discussed at length in other threads, but DEAR GOD I wish this "fad" would go away. I watched a sale video the other day (I'm not shopping, I was just youtube browsing for offspring of a bloodline) and couldn't help but wince as I watched the rider PLOP, PLOP, PLOPPING along over a decent sized prelim course.

                  Ack.
                  Those are the same riders that ride with too long of a stirrup -- they're not fit enough to ride with short stirrups. Drives me crazy, I see riders at the BN and N level like this ALL the time. I don't think they ever put their stirrups up from dressage!

                  Unfortunately for me, I'm 5'9" with long legs and a slab sided horse. As a result, I'm hiking my stirrups up much higher than most to try and compensate for my leg length and his lack of barrel. I usually go up 4 holes for SJ and XC. Technically I should go up 5 for XC, but I find it very difficult to "sit" in the saddle when they're that high (e.g., ditches for my spooky horse), plus my legs feel like they're about to break by the end of the course.
                  Road to the T3D
                  Translation
                  fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
                  skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by FrittSkritt View Post
                    Those are the same riders that ride with too long of a stirrup -- they're not fit enough to ride with short stirrups. Drives me crazy, I see riders at the BN and N level like this ALL the time. I don't think they ever put their stirrups up from dressage!

                    Unfortunately for me, I'm 5'9" with long legs and a slab sided horse. As a result, I'm hiking my stirrups up much higher than most to try and compensate for my leg length and his lack of barrel. I usually go up 4 holes for SJ and XC. Technically I should go up 5 for XC, but I find it very difficult to "sit" in the saddle when they're that high (e.g., ditches for my spooky horse), plus my legs feel like they're about to break by the end of the course.
                    But over a prelim course?! I can't imagine. It was like watching that "post the canter" trend, just sped up and less graceful (not that I'm a huge fan of it, either...).

                    I have the opposite problem, Fritt. I'm 5'7" (and shrinking!) and my horse is a ginormous, wide-bodied behemoth in a 56" girth. With my stirrups at appropriate XC height, my feet hit right at or just below the widest point of his barrel. I look like an oversized pony kid.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by PossumHorse View Post
                      After doing a lot of fence judging I can tell you that at Training and higher if a horse has multiple refusals and/or sticky fences almost always the rider does not have a good 2 point (not off the horses back).
                      I've wondered how much this is an indication of fitness and preparation for the level or just ability, but the correlation is definitely there. At BN and N, it appears that one can get away with a crappy 2 point position.
                      Do you mean between the fences? Because I would think if the horse is sticky or stopping....I'd be putting my butt in the saddle before the fences (probably many strides before). Usually it is when a horse is dropping behind your leg (no matter where you are in two point) that you get the sticky fences and stopping....and most riders, whether you realize it or not, when you feel a horse not in front of your leg sit down almost instinctually. Of course we should fix it with our leg or stick...but most will sit down....hard to pony club kick in two point

                      It is also perfectly fine to touch the saddle a few strides before a fence, or coming down hill. It is the riders who are sitting or slapping the saddle between the fences that need to really improve....regardless of the level (there have been riders who sat down between the fences at th Olympic and 4* level......but not the really good riders).
                      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                      • #31
                        So. I've been watching videos today. There is a clear difference between the two styles, but I'm wondering what people consider "plopping" on the horse's back. It seems that many of the riders stay fairly close to the saddle, but it looks to me like they aren't actually hitting the saddle while they gallop. The straight legged riders clearly aren't, but their lower legs seem to swing more. Can someone post a video demonstrating the plopping?

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by eqsiu View Post
                          So. I've been watching videos today. There is a clear difference between the two styles, but I'm wondering what people consider "plopping" on the horse's back. It seems that many of the riders stay fairly close to the saddle, but it looks to me like they aren't actually hitting the saddle while they gallop. The straight legged riders clearly aren't, but their lower legs seem to swing more. Can someone post a video demonstrating the plopping?
                          sent you a pm...
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by eqsiu View Post
                            So. I've been watching videos today. There is a clear difference between the two styles, but I'm wondering what people consider "plopping" on the horse's back. It seems that many of the riders stay fairly close to the saddle, but it looks to me like they aren't actually hitting the saddle while they gallop. The straight legged riders clearly aren't, but their lower legs seem to swing more. Can someone post a video demonstrating the plopping?
                            I'm really glad you asked this question because when I look at most videos of the top xc in the world, they're all arguably touching the saddle while galloping. Or maybe the horse's galloping motion is coming up to meet the rider. Regardless, it does look like there's contact of some sort with almost every stride. Is the argument that all of these riders would be better if they stood up instead?

                            Ex: Andrew Nicholson
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DvUhWHJl_U

                            Mary King
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJaiD1OJSmQ

                            WFP
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2NriF40k60

                            Michael Jung (see 0:35)
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrRtfwX5aII

                            The snark in me argues that the straight leg position is popular because it is easier for out of shape riders and riders who are riding too many horses xc in one day. Instead of riding in a way that has been scientifically proven to be less efficient for the horse, perhaps the solution is to get in better shape and/or ride less horses in one day.

                            It may not matter much when the length of the course is well within the horse's stamina and fitness level but at the edges I would imagine that a less efficient xc is leading to some rails on day 3.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by PossumHorse View Post
                              After doing a lot of fence judging I can tell you that at Training and higher if a horse has multiple refusals and/or sticky fences almost always the rider does not have a good 2 point (not off the horses back).
                              I've wondered how much this is an indication of fitness and preparation for the level or just ability, but the correlation is definitely there. At BN and N, it appears that one can get away with a crappy 2 point position.
                              Observation is fifty percent of learning in the horse world I think. The above is an "ah-ha" moment for anyone in question.

                              I don't think one should even bother to pay any attention at all to who is "winning" in eventing. There are so many other factors involved in winning a three-day, or event -- gallop position is not a huge factor to me in this.

                              I cannot understand how one changes one's position or modifies without taking into consideration the HORSE. Horses all gallop differently just like they all jump differently. My position is different on every horse I gallop. I don't ride every one the same, I can't. They feel and move differently. I think you would be wooden and stiff if you did.
                              Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                              Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

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