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Stormcats .......anyone? ;)

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  • #21
    I have a grandson, with some Fappiano in his pedigree as well.
    He can have temper tantrums. He bites if he has an ulcery tummy. 24-7 turnout with bovines (preferably 1800 pound bulls, no kidding) keeps him really, really happy. He likes to go tell them where they may, and may not, chew their cud today.

    He is amazingly athletic. (Leap in the air, turn around, lead changes, jumps, whatever). If he calms down and trusts you he will do anything for you.

    From what I have heard from other folks with Storm Cat offspring locally, the temper tantrums can be a big problem. If you can really get into the horse's head, and be in charge/firm without being mean or unjust, you can make it work. I happen to like a tough, opinionated horse. It can be really hard to get one on your side, though, if he's had a difficult past/poor training.
    I wouldn't do it again were it a start over, retraining deal. I probably would, though, if the horse either was successful in his career as a racehorse with no handling problems/issues, or if the horse hadn't been started or raced.

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    • #22
      I've got one with SC as his grand sire, he's by Black Minnaloushe. Very nice to look at and comfy, floating gaits. A week post track I took him on a long hack and he led most of the way on a fairly loose rein. He IS very sensitive to some things and has been known to throw a temper tantrum or two, but mostly it seems to be out of frustration and if you just ride it out and ask a simpler question he moves right along.

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      • #23
        The thing is, you aren't talking about a Storm Cat sired horse, you are talking about a Storm Cat Grandson. I knew that before I even looked at the pedigree because there aren't many sons out there for adoption. You have a Grandsire on the other side of the pedigree too.
        McDowell Racing Stables

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        • #24
          Each successive generation dilutes but...as far as the dams side goes? Mr P is on there. Twice. And there are a few other names repeated in 5 generations on both sides, there is alot of Native Dancer there top and bottom and some sport horse folks don't care for that type of breeding. Best case it improves the speed and other good qualities, worst case it magnifies hereditary unsoundnesses and rotten temperment-sometimes both.

          Mr P's close in the pedigree can be as good or bad both soundness and tempermentwise as the up close SCs depending on that particular individual. And it comes down to that particular individual. If somebody knows the horse and you and you can verify record, trainabilty and soundness (I never trust anybody)? I wouldn't necessarily turn him down if the price was right. But be aware...what he is today might not reflect how the retraining goes soundness and temperment wise.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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          • #25
            I second what others have said regarding not all sire sons of Storm Cat were hot and crazy, and these quieter sons tend to produce quieter, saner offspring than the SC stereotype. Catineus has already been mentioned as one such son of SC; in addition to Tanzillion, I know of several other Catienus offspring who have good minds, lots of athletic talent, and have transitioned well to sport careers.
            We see a lot of Freud offspring through the Finger Lakes Finest TBs Trainer Listings, and most of the ones I have seen are quiet. I know three people who took sons or daughters of Freud from the track, and theirs are all quiet, very trainable horses. I just rode a Freud filly this weekend, testing her out for a friend, and she, too, was quiet and sensible, and seemed very smart, really trying to pick up on and respond to what I was asking.
            And let's not forget how important the dam is to the temperament, mind, and ability of the horse!
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            • #26
              The only one I've ever worked with was also the only horse I've ever sent back home to its owner from training. Couldnt afford to get hurt. This horse was such a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde that it was impossible to predict or prepare yourself for the explosions. He'd be JUST FINE (for weeks, multiple rides) and would be going along and LOSE IT. A mouse would sneeze or something, and he'd do this buck, spin, run backwards bucking thing that I would challenge anyone to stay on! Had him checked for every possible problem, chiro'd, dental, etc. Nada. He was just a loony.
              Rural Property Specialist
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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Well thank you everyone, it's always an education when I ask. Ended up that this horse is going to someone else, but like I said I love the education it gives me! There is another horse in the works, he is older, and has a pedigree that I am NOT familiar with at ALL? Ugh!

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by IrishWillow View Post
                  The only one I've ever worked with was also the only horse I've ever sent back home to its owner from training. Couldnt afford to get hurt. This horse was such a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde that it was impossible to predict or prepare yourself for the explosions. He'd be JUST FINE (for weeks, multiple rides) and would be going along and LOSE IT. A mouse would sneeze or something, and he'd do this buck, spin, run backwards bucking thing that I would challenge anyone to stay on! Had him checked for every possible problem, chiro'd, dental, etc. Nada. He was just a loony.
                  This sounds like an unraced Raise a Native I had. Sweetest thing on the ground, but anything remotely unexpected and he BLEW UP. A year into training and he went from calm and responsive to double barrel kicking me in the stomach at the sound of a velcro billet strap being adjusted. He was completely unpredictable.

                  In comparison, my Storm Cat (http://www.pedigreequery.com/al+amir3) although a terrible weaver in a stall to the point of badly knocking his head on any protruding post is a wonderful fox hunter. He still thinks the first 5 minutes are a post parade and he'll throw a temper tantrum if too harsh a bit or hand is used, but he is so sweet with so much try. I'm having a blast with him.
                  Doubled Expectations (Roxy, 2001 APHA)
                  Al Amir (Al, 2005 OTTB)
                  Ten Purposes (Rosie, 2009 OTTB)

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                  • #29
                    I have three grandkids of Storm Cat all by Hennessy. They all have an OCD component to them. They like their routine when its comes to feeding etc, but all are athletic, ammy type rides. They were all restarted by my BO/trainer who is patient, experienced, and talented. She is consistent and she gets consistency from her students as well. The one is a weaver and does bang his head periodically. They all have a reallly good work ethic and try really hard to understand what you are asking. Two are geldings one is a mare, all are chestnuts. I have heard repeatedly that Hennessy had a good disposition and tended to throw it. In my experience that has been true. On the dam side, one goes to Bold Ruler, the ohter are broodmare sired by Kingmambo and Woodman. Perhaps with the SC blood getting diluted you get the athletic component and not so much of the crazy. I think each is an individual.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Fillabeana View Post
                      I have a grandson, with some Fappiano in his pedigree as well.
                      He can have temper tantrums. He bites if he has an ulcery tummy. 24-7 turnout with bovines (preferably 1800 pound bulls, no kidding) keeps him really, really happy. He likes to go tell them where they may, and may not, chew their cud today.

                      He is amazingly athletic. (Leap in the air, turn around, lead changes, jumps, whatever). If he calms down and trusts you he will do anything for you.

                      From what I have heard from other folks with Storm Cat offspring locally, the temper tantrums can be a big problem. If you can really get into the horse's head, and be in charge/firm without being mean or unjust, you can make it work. I happen to like a tough, opinionated horse. It can be really hard to get one on your side, though, if he's had a difficult past/poor training.
                      I wouldn't do it again were it a start over, retraining deal. I probably would, though, if the horse either was successful in his career as a racehorse with no handling problems/issues, or if the horse hadn't been started or raced.
                      This is really funny, he would probably make an excellent cutting horse. I wonder if we can put that in the "how to let down a bad or dominant off the track horse"?!
                      "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by halo View Post
                        one colt was an absolute horror (who will remain nameless because he is well known), would spin and wheel on the track from a full gallop.
                        LOL - if this one started out as a Keeneland yearling, I think I showed him. Absolute trainwreck - would be standing up one minute, gone the next. Tossed the chifney bit the first day and used the chain on him the rest of the session. Ended up being a good race horse but I don't know how he lived that long.

                        But this was the way it was with just about every Storm Cat - colt or filly, they were a handful and Lesson #1 was you never ever turned your back on them.

                        The further away from SC you get the better they seem to get so there is some hope for the temperment of this line.

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                        • #32
                          I think it depends on the individual horse. I have one that is a Bonus Time Cat son. And he is great. Wonderful personality, great manners, a pocket pony/cuddle pony. BUT he does have some of the SC traits, ie he does have a temper, he is determined, he is a show off, and had a great gallop. Conformation wise though he is good. FWIW, Bonus Time Cat get tend to be really really really bad!!

                          On the other hand, I have known some Storm Cats that you don't want to be on the same planet as. Just miserable evil horses. Almost make Ribot get look sweet!!

                          But remember, even a direct get of Storm Cat still has 50% of some other breeding in it. Maybe that makes a difference? My boy is well bred (FWIW) with Key To The Mint, Bold Ruler (these 2 are on the Bonus Time Cat side ), Danzig (by Northern Dancer) and Lord Gaylord. The only "nothing" line is the bottom of his granddam, and she was bred to Lord Gaylord.

                          I wouldn't AVOID a Storm Cat horse but I would be careful that the 2 of you mesh. Even if the horse is good in all other ways, they do still tend to have that "edge" or bit of a temper in them. This is a positive in many ways but can also be a problem if you can't deal with it when it comes out.

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                          • #33
                            Just updating a previous post. I took Tanzillion on our first field trip yesterday for a gymnastics clinic. Went right on the trailer, was a little up when unloaded at the farm so I tacked him up in the indoor. When he's nervous, he get's a little active with his head and neck. A friend led him into the indoor and held him while I tacked him up. I hopped on him and away we went. He was well behaved and quiet, went right to walking through the 3 different gymnastic lines. When it came to jumping, he was drawing me down to the fences and has quite good technique. JFS was the instructor and it made my day when she commented that Lucinda Green would like this one. After the clinic, he went into the barn and stood in a stall as the only horse in the barn after the horse next to him had left. Loaded him by myself and went home.

                            It's been 5 years since I started a greenie and as an older adult the plan was not to go the track for a youngster. I was hestitate to buy him (ask buffalo colleen) because of the Storm Cat but I'm glad I did.
                            1. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.

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                            • #34
                              I have a SC grandson http://www.pedigreequery.com/mano+santa3 and he is an absolute peach-- probably one of the easiest horses to handle at the barn, scared of nothing, jumps literally ANYTHING you put in front of him, and is dead-quiet to ride 99% of the time; last weekend he was giving pony rides to my 9-year old niece.
                              *friend of bar.ka

                              "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                I don't think you can compare how they act while at the track or in track training with how they may be as sport horses. We all have had horses who while holy terrors at the track or just neurotic messes.....when let down, and in a different farm situation etc. they become different animals.
                                and only from my own personal experience will I say in response to the above...
                                >>> ha! not always.!
                                IN GOD WE TRUST
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                                • #36
                                  Has anyone noticed a trend of temperaments based on the mare lines?

                                  I'm just curious. I've seen footage of a couple of Tiger Ridge offspring that look like decent movers, but I'm curious about temperament. Would Weekend Surprise, arguably one of the nicest mares in recent history, have any impact on the temperament of Storm Cat?

                                  Does anyone have experience with Tiger Ridge? I'm just curious.
                                  "Life ain't always beautiful, but it's a beautiful ride."

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                                  • #37
                                    Weekend Suprise was a Honey when in training....

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                      I don't think you can compare how they act while at the track or in track training with how they may be as sport horses. We all have had horses who while holy terrors at the track or just neurotic messes.....when let down, and in a different farm situation etc. they become different animals.
                                      Exactly!

                                      That being said, there is definitely a love-or-hate them camp.. I was always wary of them but when I was in Aiken met two LOVELY SC horses - both of who are competing sound/sane under the tutelage of my friend, whose first UL horse was SC descendant. Both are full brothers and the former unfortunately died of colic two years ago, but was an amazing Advanced horse - his full brother is following his footsteps (: I like their big egos and bigger hearts. That being said, they know when you're asking a lot of them and they know when you're being unfair to them - and THAT is when the blowups happen.

                                      Also: will say that their temperament/demeanors (as far as being "miserable") is more likely a handling/comfort issue than a genetic trait - I don't really believe horses are born "nasty" - that's something they learn when they are handled unfairly. I used to be in the "very wary of SC offspring" camp until I realized that part of it is their handler.. it's not fair to them to treat them based on their heritage and not based on the individual.
                                      AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

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                                      • #39
                                        I've only been around one SC grandson. He is a chronic rearer, strikes, kicks out, etc. and then is a cuddle bug. No history of abuse or heavy-handed handling but also a history of (IMHO) overly permissive handlers. Stunningly handsome, athletic, and you couldn't pay me to put a leg over his back. Obviously I can't say for certain that it is his SC connection that is the root of his weirdness but that's been my limited experience with SC.

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                                        • #40
                                          a) The horse is not "a Storm Cat", as he is a grandson and not a son of SC.

                                          b)(i) SC put approx 1500 direct foals on the ground. Saying you knew of one, two or even five such offspring and they were X,Y or z.... your sample size is too small.
                                          b)(ii) SC has a whole plethora of sons at stud, being a noted "sire or sires", all the way from top sires like G's C'way to local regional sires standing for $500 a pop. That means SC is the grandsire of literally 1,000s (thousands) of descendants, like probably well over 10,000 at this point. (On a side note, he has probably found his way into the pedigrees of 1,000s of QHs at this point too). Therefore, saying you had a SC grandson/daughter and he was like X, Y or Z..... completely utterly and entirely meaningless, as your data set is way too small to derive any meaningful conclusion.

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