• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

A Rules Discussion- Placing rails in warm up

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A Rules Discussion- Placing rails in warm up

    One of my favorite warm up exercises is a small oxer with 9' placing rails on each side. It helps me find my rhythm and get my eye adjusted and get me relaxed. But I can't do it at events...but you CAN do it at h/j shows. So, what's the difference? Why can't we do something like that?

    Discuss.
    Amanda

  • #2
    no idea why it isn't allowed. Perhaps just because we have more limited warm up space generally?
    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

    Comment


    • #3
      Because we don't "claim" fences like h/j riders/trainers?

      Comment


      • #4
        In addition to what Beam Me Up said above... because not everyone knows the proper distance for placing... potentially setting folks up for problems. I can see it now, Trainer A doesn't know squat and puts a pole at a wrong distance... their horse, being a saint, is used to the fubbar that is Trainer A's distances and works it out... but horse from Trainer B doesn't and since, as BMU said, trainers don't "claim" fences, horse be attempts fence and fubbar placing rail and voila... rider B gets hurt and then you have the finger pointing of who is responsible.

        The rules, IIRC, state that no ground poles may be placed on the landing side of the fence and I think it's a good idea. Could you potentially do the same exercise with ground poles instead of a fence and pole if you feel the exercise is really needed? A TD/PoGJ may let you do that since it's not a "fence"
        ************
        "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

        "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
          One of my favorite warm up exercises is a small oxer with 9' placing rails on each side. It helps me find my rhythm and get my eye adjusted and get me relaxed. But I can't do it at events...but you CAN do it at h/j shows. So, what's the difference? Why can't we do something like that?

          Discuss.
          What I was told (and I do not know when it happened or even if it is true)

          Sombody who DID know what they were doing set up a placing pole at an unconventional distance, but it was right for what he was doing with that horse (maybe a trot approach to a big fence, not sure).

          When he was finished he went into the ring. leaving the placing pole at an unconventional distance.

          Another, less accomplished, rider didn't realize the palcing pole was at an "odd" distance, cantered it "normally", and had a nasty crash, and was badly hurt.

          Nobody wanted that to happen again. They tried to figure out how to prevent it, and decided the simplest/safest way to do it was to bann ALL rolled out groundlines/placing poles.
          Janet

          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Well, that makes sense.
            Amanda

            Comment


            • #7
              I love placing pole for when things go wonky. Settles the horse and rider back into a rhythm. But Never at a show or event, Scary what happened to someone.
              bad on the trainer for not removing it before leaving.

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh, Sannois, you'd be AMAZED at what trainers do in warmup and just walk away.
                When the warmup is not stewarded many of the rules regarding the fences are routinely ignored-- the intent is to have a safe, level playing field,so in addition to limitations on ground poles there are (as I'm sure you all know) limitations on height.
                Mr. asterix stewards the warmups at our HTs -- it's a limited space, so it is important to limit the number of riders in the area -- anyone who is a repeat customer knows that the rules are politely enforced, but, yes, every time he has to have a conversation with a trainer or two (including the fact that it is not HIS job to put the fences back to a proper configuration -- if you lower the oxer 3 holes, you should put it back).
                The big man -- my lost prince

                The little brother, now my main man

                Comment


                • #9
                  Agreed, Asterix. I've seen "trainers" and trainers bump up or down the fence heights in the warmup and then not put them back. I tend to compete with a trainer nearby - what if I wanted to jump that vertical at the height it's supposed to be at? I don't have anybody to help me move it back down.

                  Don't mess with the warmup fences. It's one of the many reasons why I prefer eventing to hunter/jumper land.
                  "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

                  So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "Bump up"? How about CRANK up (even above what should be allowed), and then walk away, leaving them that way? As someone who routinely shows by myself, without "ground crew", this makes me just a little titch crazy ;->
                    Yvonne Lucas
                    Red Moon Farm
                    redmoonfarm.com


                    "Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Jim Wofford

                    "Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant." - Jim Wofford

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do whatever you need to do at home. At a show, the simplest and safest common denominator should be used, and if that means that all possible schooling options are not available to you at the last minute, oh well. Level playing field and all that. The last thing we need is a bunch of trainers monkeying around with the 3 fences that serve 30 horses trying to warm up!
                      Click here before you buy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        amen yventer!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No placing poles at FEI - no way, no how. I have a reminder on this every year for FHI warmup. The poles may not be rolled out any further than about a meter on the take off side (there is a measurement but I don't have fast enough internet to download the entire FEI rulebook and search for it) And NOTHING on the landing side at all.

                          Since national rules follow the FEI rules, unless specifically covered in the USEF/USEA rules, your warmup will follow the FEI. They are quite clear on the warmup heights, sizes of jumps, etc. as they vary with the class competing. The warmup rules come from the show jumping wellspring. I gotta find that and download it too. But not at home at night...
                          Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                          Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by retreadeventer View Post
                            No placing poles at FEI - no way, no how. I have a reminder on this every year for FHI warmup. The poles may not be rolled out any further than about a meter on the take off side (there is a measurement but I don't have fast enough internet to download the entire FEI rulebook and search for it) And NOTHING on the landing side at all.

                            Since national rules follow the FEI rules, unless specifically covered in the USEF/USEA rules, your warmup will follow the FEI. They are quite clear on the warmup heights, sizes of jumps, etc. as they vary with the class competing. The warmup rules come from the show jumping wellspring. I gotta find that and download it too. But not at home at night...
                            I believe the ground rail cannot be rolled out more than 3'3". And the fences can't be any higher than 4" over the maximum for the level (i.e.- Training max is 3'3", warmup fences can't be higher than 3'7") And I'm also pretty sure the fences can't be wider than 3" over the max width but I'm not 100% positive on that.

                            There's also other specific rules like the rail always has to be on a cup, as opposed to laying on the base of a standard, or a crossrail with the pole ends resting on the tops of the standards. And if you have a crossrail under a vertical rail the crossrail ends have to be lower than the vertical rails.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                              Do whatever you need to do at home. At a show, the simplest and safest common denominator should be used, and if that means that all possible schooling options are not available to you at the last minute, oh well. Level playing field and all that. The last thing we need is a bunch of trainers monkeying around with the 3 fences that serve 30 horses trying to warm up!
                              To that end, I like the "2 verticals" change last year. The hardest part of warm-up for me, assuming I have nobody setting fences, is going from a x-rail to a competition height vertical or oxer--I want to jump a nice ~3' vertical in between . . .

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                I like having multiple verticals, too, though I have seen, numerous times, where someone will raise BOTH of them...then walk away.

                                I mean, really, common sense is just not that common.
                                Amanda

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  More like "good manners and thoughtfulness" are not common.
                                  Click here before you buy.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Coming from hunters, I was used to claiming one jump with my trainer, have her start it low, move it up, open up the ground line, add or take away "peep" poles, etc. Imagine my surprise when I come to my first event and not only is it not the norm to take a jump and adjust it, but you can only jump it ONE direction!

                                    I'm not a rules guru in eventing...but I don't see why if the warmup wasn't too busy if you couldn't have your trainer help you and then immediately fix the jump.

                                    My eventing trainer won't stand next to my jump...is that the norm? I'm used to my h/j trainer standing next to it...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by reay6790 View Post
                                      Coming from hunters, I was used to claiming one jump with my trainer, have her start it low, move it up, open up the ground line, add or take away "peep" poles, etc. Imagine my surprise when I come to my first event and not only is it not the norm to take a jump and adjust it, but you can only jump it ONE direction!

                                      I'm not a rules guru in eventing...but I don't see why if the warmup wasn't too busy if you couldn't have your trainer help you and then immediately fix the jump.

                                      My eventing trainer won't stand next to my jump...is that the norm? I'm used to my h/j trainer standing next to it...
                                      You can certainly have someone adjust a warmup jump, within the rules, but you have to expect that other people will be jumping it as well, and leave it at the standard dimensions when you are done.
                                      Janet

                                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by reay6790 View Post
                                        I'm not a rules guru in eventing...but I don't see why if the warmup wasn't too busy if you couldn't have your trainer help you and then immediately fix the jump. ..
                                        Because there are only 3, occasionally 4, warm-up jumps and almost always more than 3 or 4 people trying to warm-up. "Claiming" a jump does not allow everyone the same ability to warmup. In addition, many eventers warm-up without a trainer and so cannot claim their own jump and cannot easily do multiple height adjustments in their warm-up. As others have said, level playing field.
                                        I have been warm-up steward for SJ too and there is always someone who messes with the heights and then disappears
                                        There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X