• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Starter Recognized or Nonrecognized???

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Starter Recognized or Nonrecognized???

    I have been doing schooling HT and am thinking of moving up from Starter to BN. However, I am starting to see where Starter is now recognized? If this is so, what exactly does that mean? Thanks for clarifying this!

  • #2
    Some recognized events have intro and starter levels. They're not recognized levels though. I think I would go BN at a couple of unrecognized before doing a recognized one, just because, IME, the questions are harder at recognized.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

    Comment


    • #3
      It is not recognized, but some recognized events hold levels like "starter", "baby beginner novice," "tadpole" and that ilk along side the recognized levels (BN and up).

      What it means is possibly better courses, good footing, good officials, and similar benefits to a recognized event. But those levels are not recognized by USEA or USEF. They are still "schooling" or unrecognized levels, just held along side a recognized event.
      Amanda

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Okay, I got into Omnibus and here is what I see. I see there is a difference between Divsion and recognized Test. What is the difference then???


        USEF/USEA Recognized Division:T,N,BN
        USEF Endorsed/USEA Recognized Divisions:P
        USEA Recognized Test:Starter

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by gooselover View Post
          Okay, I got into Omnibus and here is what I see. I see there is a difference between Divsion and recognized Test. What is the difference then???


          USEF/USEA Recognized Division:T,N,BN
          USEF Endorsed/USEA Recognized Divisions:P
          USEA Recognized Test:Starter
          One difference is that the Starter division test does not grant any year end points, as far as USEA year end awards are concerned...
          Inese

          Comment


          • #6
            Exactly what is stated above. It's just a funny way of putting it. I believe the rule book actually describes exactly what "recognized test" means...but that level is NOT recognized by the USEA or USEF. It basically means it is run in conjunction possibly following all rules (where at an unrecognized event, they may change or bend or make up different rules).
            Amanda

            Comment


            • #7
              SUBCHAPTER EV-2 RULES FOR TESTSEV122 Introduction.
              1. DEFINITION. Tests consist of one or more dressage, cross-country or jumping competitions.
              They are designed to introduce the discipline, and to prepare competitors and horses for Horse
              Trials. They provide experience for participants within an enjoyable day of competition. These
              competitions may include:
              a. Cross-Country Tests
              b. Combined Tests
              c. Starter Event Rider Tests
              d. Eventing Equitation Tests
              e. Young Event Horse Tests
              2. ORGANIZATION. Tests may be offered as separate competitions, or may be organized in
              conjunction with a Horse Trial or an Event. They usually take place on one day.
              Here is the description of "tests" in the rule book.
              Amanda

              Comment


              • #8
                And starter division tests (maiden, tadpole, etc.) neither incur USEA starter/D&M fees nor require memberships.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Sometimes it would just be easier if people put things in plain English! Here I thought it was now recognized!@

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MandyVA View Post
                    ... I think I would go BN at a couple of unrecognized before doing a recognized one, just because, IME, the questions are harder at recognized.
                    It may depend on where you are, but sometimes the unrecognized ones are (unintentionally) harder becuase the course designer is less educated, and includes things that are not appropriate.
                    Janet

                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I used to take my green horses to unrecognized events for Below BN, BN, and oftenNovice.

                      But I ran into trouble with badly designed courses, and badly run events (One time they did not even measue the courses, they just read what the prize list said, and calculated optimum time fromthat. They never bothered to check to see if the course was anywhere neatr that distance. It wasn't.).

                      Now I am more likely to go to "tests" at recognized events, or unrecognized events that are run by people who also run rcognized ones.
                      Janet

                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I completely agree with Janet. I prefer starter divisions as part of a recognized HT because in most cases there is more attention to detail. Also, the EMT tends to be there. I appreciate that starter jumps are basically speed bumps, but so many people riding starter have very green horses and or are newbies themselves. The last starter division I saw had more RFs than all the recognized divisions combined!
                        Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
                        http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm lucky to have several great people who run fantastic unrecognized events in this area (secretariat's daughter, LAZ, couple pony clubs). ZERO worries about the course. So what that leaves me with is having the biggest difference between recognized and unrecognized being... The Cost!! When I can go to a 1 day event by these folks for about $100 INCLUDING stabling... or go to a recognized event and run their starter division for sometimes more than double... it makes a HUGE difference.

                          as for starter having more falls, perhaps that's more of a rider/trainer culture issue than a reflection on the event. Let's face it... the lower the jumps, the more people don't really think it takes much to event and therefore the less they do their homework and the more unprepared they truly are. Hardly a fault of the sport/course.
                          ************
                          "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                          "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            I will go to schooling HT first at the BN level to get my feet under me and for the experience...then I may tackle a recognized. Cost is SURE a factor - under a $100 for a schooling HT compared to well over $500 for a recognized, if not more, when you figure entry fees, stabling, trainer fees, hotel, food and gas.

                            Thanks for the responses, you helped me understand what this means.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by IronwoodFarm View Post
                              I completely agree with Janet. I prefer starter divisions as part of a recognized HT because in most cases there is more attention to detail. Also, the EMT tends to be there. I appreciate that starter jumps are basically speed bumps, but so many people riding starter have very green horses and or are newbies themselves. The last starter division I saw had more RFs than all the recognized divisions combined!
                              You could say that about the intro division at the Kelly's Ford Fall HT (recognized) this year too though! I couldn't believe all the rider falls at intro.
                              \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think the point of the falls at intro/starter being brought up was not that there are more at an unrecognized (the point about people at that level potentially being less prepared/more likely to fall off is valid), but that at a recognized event, the ambulance is there just in case. I know that at Waredaca and Fair Hill unrecognized horse trials, they always have an ambulance, but don't know to what extent this is universally true and it should be a consideration for people making the decision.
                                OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Oh that makes sense Scubed. I thought the point was what Janet said, that the unrecognized events don't bother making sure the starter jumps are safe/the right distance. Either way...I hadn't factored the need for an ambulance into my preference for recognized/unrecognized, lol. I've participated in both and never had any bad experiences either way.
                                  \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    because there is no necessary oversight of the courses at an unrecognized, they could have inappropriate or unmeasured fences more easily than at a recognized event. Again, events like Fair Hill, Waredaca, Plantation, and many others do hire a TD for their unrecognized events and someone does actually walk/measure/etc all the courses. If I TD at an event where there is a starter in conjunction with recognized (which I have done at Cobblestone, eg), I walk/measure/etc that course there. So, both that aspect and the ambulance aspect could enter. The problem is that with a recognized event, you know what you are getting, whereas with an unrecognized, there can exist wide variation. I totally favor safe and reasonable unrecognized events, but do tend to stick to places where they either 1) also run recognized events, or 2) involve a lot of people who also work around recognized events, for example DVCTA at Carousel.
                                    OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      How the course is as far as appropriate fences at unrecognized events is totally dependent upon the organizer. I was asked to TD a local unrecognized event eons ago. I did walk and measure everything. Found a couple things mildly out of line with the rules and was ignored by the organizer. Nothing extreme, but still not 100% within the rules. No one had a problem with those fences.

                                      Going to an unrecognized event is a bit of a crap shoot. You could get some yahoo out piling logs in weird places... or you could get someone meticulous in their attention to detail who's hired a course builder and a licensed TD even if their event doesn't run recognized. You jsut never know so it's always best to ask -- ask the organizer, ask people who've attended their event. I took some first timers to an event this fall that none of us had been to before... but I talked to the organizer and to the TD (who I would trust with my life when it comes to running a proper event). We were supposed to go to anotehr event in July but medical issues cancelled that one for us... i've never ridden there but know the organizer and fully trust that when it comes to a baby event, she has the best possible experience for the horses and riders in mind.

                                      So bottom line? YMMV... so do your homework before entering. It's YOUR responsibility.
                                      ************
                                      "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                                      "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        You know, the above comments are fantastic as I had NEVER thought about these issues. I am in Oklahoma and the schooling shows have been at some of the eventing farms here in this area. The one recognized show I would like to go to is at Feathercreek, Jubilee along with Holly Hill. I have heard Greenwood is a really nice place also along with Briar Fox, but heard they have sold that facility.

                                        Some really good points brought up here! Luckily I have never witnessed an accident at the shows I have been to. Knock on wood!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X