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What would you do ...??

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  • What would you do ...??

    Last march I bought a horse from Pat Dale of Three Plain Bays Farm...also known as Judybigredpony here on Coth. I was told by Pat that this horse had clean hock/stifle xrays.....fast forward 10 months later -I have a buyer who gets him PPE, and find out that indeed he has clean hock/stifle xrays, however his front feet xrays revealed that he had mild lamintis in both front feet that the vet says was old....when I asked Pat about this -she told me that somebody else vetted him before I bought him, and those people passed on buying him for that reason. Pat never mentioned to me anything ever about this horses feet until now after the fact....I feel like she misrepresented the horse-knowing that he had this on his feet xrays-I would not have bought him for resale....but I trusted her because I have bought many horses from her over the years....this is a great young horse who is sound, and always has been...but now having this on his feet xrays has scared every buyer away.

    Any thought or suggestions?? I don't know what to do...I feel as if Pat should make right and take the horse back...and either give me my money back, sell him for me or give me a different horse that truly does have clean xrays??

    Thanks in advance

  • #2
    My first thought? Wow... talk about airing dirty laundry for the world to see, not to mention dragging a ton of uninvolved people into the whole mess. Have you tried working it out with Pat??

    The world would be a much nicer place if people would talk TO each other instead of ABOUT each other.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

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    • #3
      #1 agree with tle
      #2 didn't you get a PPE when you bought the horse?
      #3 you say he's sound and always has been. So you got what you purchased, a sound horse.
      Blugal

      You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

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      • #4
        I agree with the others -- way to go.
        You have to have experiences to gain experience.

        1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with the posts above and I am confused some. The seller did not tell you any untruths.

          Comment


          • #6
            Holy COW, Concetta. Talk about throwing somebody under the bus ! Glad I won't ever have an opportunity to do business with YOU!
            ~Did you buy this horse without doing your OWN pre-purchase? Stupid move #1.
            ~Did you ASK if the horse had any previous films? No? Stupid move #2.
            ~Did you ASK if the horse had any previous issues or lamenesses? No? Stupid move #3.
            Sorry, you sound like you have a vendetta against your seller. If I were you, I'd first remove this thread. Then I suggest you take a deep breath, pull on your big girl pants and try to approach this from an adult's stand point. Pick up the PHONE and call your seller. Apologize for acting like a vindictive b**ch and try to figure out how to cope with this. I say you have no legs to stand on, YOU bought the horse with no PPE. It has been TEN MONTHS. The seller owes you squat.
            Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

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            • Original Poster

              #7
              I have talked to Pat....her advice was to just hope for a buyer won't care about that
              Yes ultimately at the end of the day...I could have and obviously should have gotten him vetted myself....but i trusted Pat and took her word....I really feel like she did me wrong by knowing this information and not mentioning zip to me about this horses feet....especially since I have over an 8+ year relationship with this woman...and have bought many horses from her....not mentioning that the horse had laminitis -to me-is misrepresenting the horse....that's something major...no matter which way you slice it or dice it....she knew this info and did not disclose it

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                The seller knew this horse had laminitis and didn't disclose that info....shame on her for not being up front

                Yes ...stupid on me ...for trusting and not doing my own PPE

                Comment


                • #9
                  I hate to say it...I agree with the others.

                  I do not expect Sellers to tell me what you seem to expect them to tell you (even ones who I have a long standing relationship with). If I buy a horse, I vet a horse. I do not rely on others PPE. Just because one person (or more than one) passes on a horse because of PPE doesn't mean I expect the seller to tell me, OR that I will not buy the same horse with the same issues.


                  YOU choose not to xray front feet. If I was buying for re-sale---I get xrays of EVERYTHING. Myself. For my use. I also now always shoot xrays of their backs.

                  I've bought SEVERAL horses from Pat in the past....and have been VERY happy with every single one of them. And I fully expect to buy from her again in the future. Some I've vetted lightly....others, that I was thinking potential re-sale....I've done PPE that cost me as much if not more than the horse!


                  You have a sound horse with not perfect xrays. I would be making sure I have xrays now (that I own), so that perhaps future ones show he has not had any changes. There are pleanty of top level competions horses with not great feet xrays....but if you had originally bought the horse for re-sale, then I would have shot xrays then because, yes, not great xrays makes it hard to resell a sound horse. But I would not be putting this on Pat in the negative light that you did on a public BB. You also have a horse that is still marketable and ridable.

                  Very mild changes should NOT scare off most buyers for a horse doing his job soundly with xrays over a time period that show that his feet have not been getting worse.
                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Concetta View Post
                    Last march I bought a horse from Pat Dale of Three Plain Bays Farm...also known as Judybigredpony here on Coth. I was told by Pat that this horse had clean hock/stifle xrays.....fast forward 10 months later -I have a buyer who gets him PPE, and find out that indeed he has clean hock/stifle xrays, however his front feet xrays revealed that he had mild lamintis in both front feet that the vet says was old....when I asked Pat about this -she told me that somebody else vetted him before I bought him, and those people passed on buying him for that reason. Pat never mentioned to me anything ever about this horses feet until now after the fact....I feel like she misrepresented the horse-knowing that he had this on his feet xrays-I would not have bought him for resale....but I trusted her because I have bought many horses from her over the years....this is a great young horse who is sound, and always has been...but now having this on his feet xrays has scared every buyer away.

                    Any thought or suggestions?? I don't know what to do...I feel as if Pat should make right and take the horse back...and either give me my money back, sell him for me or give me a different horse that truly does have clean xrays??

                    Thanks in advance
                    Just in case.
                    Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                    The Grove at Five Points

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why, oh, why do people need to blame others for their mistakes?
                      Originally posted by dizzywriter
                      My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.

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                      • #12
                        RE: "What would you do....?"

                        Reply: not what you did. Seems like you are playing innocent in a "dispute" between two parties. It does not come across as innocent. It does come off as dirty tactic.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I really have to wonder why someone would volunteer information that the hocks and stifles are clean but would conveniently not volunteer that there was a problem in the front end.

                          Either say NOTHING and tell the buyer, "You need to vet the horse yourself, as I don't want to touch making representations about xrays with a 10' pole," OR reveal EVERYTHING you know.

                          Honestly if I knew a horse was going to vet a little funny from prior experience I would tell people before they even come out. Why waste their time and money? If it is going to be a deal breaker for them don't make them try and then revet the same horse to re-find out information that is already known.
                          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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                          • #14
                            Seems to me you came on here blasting her name to try to bully her into something, since you've already spoken to her and she didn't do what you wanted. Classy. FWIW, I'd have had a little sympathy for you if you hadn't named the seller. I would still say it was your own fault for not getting a PPE, though.
                            Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                              I really have to wonder why someone would volunteer information that the hocks and stifles are clean but would conveniently not volunteer that there was a problem in the front end.
                              I wonder if the OP asked that specifically?

                              It is a good question. What was asked by the OP and what was just volunteered.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Wow, if CoTH had a train wreck alert system, this thread would certainly qualify.
                                ::With age comes wisdom. Apparently "wisdom" weighs about 40 pounds.::

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                  I wonder if the OP asked that specifically?

                                  It is a good question. What was asked by the OP and what was just volunteered.
                                  I don't even really care what the OP specifically asked and what was just volunteered.

                                  When you start to make a representation about the xrays of a horse someone is considering purchasing, imo your options are to reveal all or nothing. This is particularly important if someone is clearly going to buy a horse for resale.

                                  Selectively revealing only the good information you know?
                                  Come on.

                                  There is a reason it is called the WHOLE truth.

                                  ETA: This is not to say I believe one party over the other in this particular situation. However, it is a little discouraging to see, as a general response to this thread, people having such low ethical standards for sellers and making excuses for this sort of behavior (regardless of who is or is not possibly doing it).
                                  The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                  Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                  Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                  The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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                                  • #18
                                    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the dead wall grow out, allowing the hoof to return to the correct angle if trimmed properly? Get some current radiographs on the horse; bring the radiographs to a respected farrier with corrective shoeing experience. Proper trimming and shoeing should resolve the issue.

                                    As for your issue with the person you bought the horse from: It would've been nice if it was mentioned to you, and I can see why you're upset ... but - all horses are sold "as is" (unless otherwise specified in the sales contract) and it is up to you to ask all the right questions and do your own PPE. She does not owe you anything such as taking the horse back or giving you a new horse in exchange.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      And The Rest Of The Story

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                                      While Silence is Golden I choose to speak...

                                      Edited: I never had a conversation advising concetta what when where why and how to sell horse or what to disclose or not.....She however has been asking me to re-sell the horse for her..Because she doesn't think he will make a Fancy "AA" show hunter after all. THe Hocks were mentioned because Concetta complained he made a clicking noise this summer and it was driving the customers away...of course that was the 1st I heard he was for sale...and I told her 1. His hock rads were clean and she knew that..2. the clciking was release of Hydrogen and she could ask any vet..

                                      Concetta WAS TOLD 100% that the horse HAD Changes to his feet during the intial PPE by a customer and was given 100% FULL DISCLOSURE to ALL information I had and OWNED.Before she bought the horse...ALSO I did not do not have the Xrays because buyer wanted me to buy them @ full price..Concetta has failed to mention I told her this several times. She also knew because I told her when he didn't sell. she has had horses not sell for a ding on PPE when selling. She also has failed to mention she approached me about buying the horse..on numerous never ending calls, offering $$ plus the chestnut mare in trade..$$$ and no trade.....I did not offer her horse...offered no deals asked for no trades w/ her did nor approach her..I made it 100% clear he was bought by me sound had absolutely NO unsoundess history no vices was under tack had been jumping and actually been to 3 jumping clinics from Janury to March.Collen Rutledge, Jimmy Woffard and Stephen Bradley. She had all the video and photo's of him.
                                      She didn't tell you she came hours late did not even attempt or ask to ride horse only saw him loose school and did not PPE which I did not prevent her from doing.Any buyer is always welcome to do a PPE and I always always insist @ a PPE blood be drawn for Tox screen where they choose to run it or store it.
                                      Did she tell you I got 2nd opinions on his feet x-rays sent out thru e-mail (which I paid for) ..both of which said if horse was sound @ presentation had good healthy feet with no signs of active diesease there was no reason to believe horse would be unsound for future I told her this....Did she also tell you that he did not then nor now fail PPE for any unsoundness upon flexions, hoof testing, jog or pavement, circles in deep sand or small circles on very hard packed flat going, and horse has been sound for her..did she share that the Vet who did the last PPE was w/ the same practise and his x-rays are there in their client files?? Did she share that the attending PPE vet said horse was sound and had good feet and showed no active or current disease and that the Laminetic changes were very very old and only of signifigance as a disclosure not a sign of current or future unsoundness. Where you also told he has lovely big round healthy walled feet? No groves weak thin wals or soles...and my farrier and the PPE vets will cooberate this.
                                      Did she also tell you she told me she was not buying him as a re-sale but as a keeper and that her husband just had to have him...Did she tell you she bought a chestnut filly w/ another "partner" then was unhappy with that horse and wanted to sell it...and got upset because I wouldn't help her sell that horse?? Which by the way did not come from me, and there was no reason for me to sell her horse for her.
                                      did she share that I have in the past sold her 4 other horses and 3 of them to date she sold for significant prices all were genuine and as represented..So Why Would I Change My "spots" so to speak. Or that I arranged for her to be "Given" a huge mare by Rock Point who she bred to Aperio and got a 1st premium foal from, this same mare unfortuantely had ankle chips surgicall removed-rechipped hence the give away. Mare also had a bad colic after foaling..and she asked me about her SELLING the mare as a ridng horse?? She also bougth a horse with screws in his ankles from another seller and has been having a hard time getting him sold. So there is a bit of a common disgruntle coming thru.
                                      This is a lovely elegant uphill stunning grey horse w/ a huge lofty jump, he never raced infact he was training barefoot. Over 17H of drop dead stunningness, I never once to a single person hide the fact he had a PPE which showed changes to his feet..why wouold I they would certainly show up up the same. Also her regular Vet works for the same practise who did the PPE. I am not stupid here people.
                                      I let her have another Rock Point filly on the "Cuff" for a few months who she failed to sell or put much consistant work on..I took said filly back. Put a few weeks on her and sold her for full asking price, she passed a full PPE and I GAVE Concetta a 10% commission on the sale of My horse from My farm to My seller...why because I am not a B*tch and knew she was having a spot of tough times.
                                      Did she tell you I gave her an infoal mare...who at some point lost the foal and was to difficult for Concetta to handle?? I did not want Concetta or her daughter to get run over by the mare and I insisted on taking mare back and found her a home as a recipient mare.
                                      I do enough business with the people of COTH and Eventing community to be not so stupid as to lie cheat or decieve someone, especially someone who I have successfully sold a significant number of horses to. So back to your regularly programed stations of Flame Suit train wreck on.....
                                      Last edited by judybigredpony; Dec. 10, 2012, 12:38 PM.

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                                      • #20
                                        Well, that clears it all up.

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