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What would you do ...??

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  • #41
    As much as I hate to step into the mess, to par down what I've read:

    Buyer did not do a PPE, and went on what the Seller was saying to her. According to Buyer, Seller said hocks and stifles were clean; according to Seller, Buyer was told everything was clean with some changes in the feet that were old and didn't affect soundness.

    Horse is apparently sound, Buyer now wants to be a Seller and is getting kicked in the arse by other Buyers who are actually doing a PPE.

    OK, here's what I take away from this: Horses get hurt or sick in the pasture, or in training, or something genetic, or whatever. A Seller may or may not know about it, or conversely, may or may not disclose it. A Buyer has the duty to do a PPE before or within 30 days of purchase if there is a contract (I've seen it done this way). If you are buying a nice horse, whether to keep or sell or possibly sell, it's standard practice to check some of the major problem areas, whichever ones you deem important, and to see if horse reacts to whatever/how many tests the PPEing vet does at your request.

    IF YOU DON'T, IT'S ON YOU.

    I bought an ugly ducking for a song and chose to not do a PPE. Why? Well, because a PPE would have been the same cost as what I paid. Now, 15 months later and two months of professional training, he might be something special, so I had some baseline rads taken due to the trainer mentioning injections even though there had never been an unsoundness. And found this. Won't affect his soundness per the vet team who blew them up on a projector in their weekly meeting, but could run off a Buyer if I chose to become a Seller. Because it sure looks hinky. Now what if it did affect his soundness, and I found it after two months of very expensive training (each month several hundred more than original purchase price)?? Well...IT'S ON ME FOR NOT DOING A PPE.

    Anyways. Bringing names and farm names into a thread over and over is just bad taste.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

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    • #42
      PPE or no PPE if people are walking away from a 4yo horse that is "practically perfect in every way" (to quote an old movie) because he at one time had laminitis...

      well....the American horse scene has truly gone belly up and is past saving.

      Tamara
      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Concetta View Post
        Maybe because they don't want to deal with your ranting and ravings and deflective nonsense pyschobabble
        Well why not? You obviously wanted to deal with it otherwise you wouldn't have brought your dirty laundry out here and asked us to sniff it and see if it could be worn again.

        Oh and for the record, I don't have a dog in this fight, I just think the original post was extraordinary bad form no matter who is to blame and I've had too much caffeine
        Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Concetta View Post
          I'm not the only one...the private messages are pouring in about a boatload of people who have been screwed by Pat Dale....why they aren't saying anything ?? Maybe because they don't want to deal with your ranting and ravings and deflective nonsense pyschobabble
          Why? Perhaps because they know it's in poor taste to get into a mud slinging contest on the internet. Perhaps because they don't want to tarnish THEIR reputations by getting into said mud slinging. Perhaps because they have no backbone to stand up to someone. I dunno... I would venture to guess it's either 1 or 2 and less likely 3 but who knows. Fact is that you, OP, started this mess by coming in guns blazing. I understand your side from what you've said. I understand Pat's side from what she's written (no psychobabble was written). Frankly, it's a mess and I feel for all parties involved but the onus is ALWAYS on the buyer for a PPE. To publicly blame someone else is in REALLY poor taste and unless you get a court to side with you, will always reflect worse on YOUR reputation than the sellers (because as already mentioned, it's YOUR responsibility for a PPE or to deal with the consequences).

          Frankly, I think the issue, regardless of how it got started is as someone else put it... trying to sell a horse in a bad economy that was purchased without a PPE means taking both a financial hit and the hit of "well, that was stupid of me" and some people can't deal with either so they have to find someone else to take a hit (or 2).
          ************
          "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

          "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

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          • #45
            Anyone else notice all the "bad" post ratings given to any post not in support of the OP? Gee....wonder who is doing that
            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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            • #46
              Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
              Anyone else notice all the "bad" post ratings given to any post not in support of the OP? Gee....wonder who is doing that
              I'm not sure which side gave me my bad rating... haha
              "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

              My CANTER blog.

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              • Original Poster

                #47
                Actually When I first told Pat about the condition of this horses feet which my farrier had first pointed out to me - her initial response was that what ever he's got or is wrong with him I caused it! ...that I owned him long enough for this to develop...she called it large vasculization and "Wb" feet and told me he was born that way ! Funny now that after this current PPE she agrees that he had laminitis and not only that but she got second opinions by NewBolten Center deeming it a non issue.....but I caused it...even though per his PPE this was old from a long time ago....again....she didn't say squat to me once about this horses feet until after the fact

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Concetta View Post
                  Any thought or suggestions?? I don't know what to do...I feel as if Pat should make right and take the horse back [NOPE]...and either give me my money back [NOPE], sell him for me [NOPE] or give me a different horse that truly does have clean xrays [aaand NOPE]??

                  Legally, she doesn't owe you anything and furthermore, whatever slim chance you may have had of accomplishing any of the above is long gone, now that you've posted on here and publicly called her out.

                  And in the end, this thread of yours has served no real purpose besides entertain me while I eat Trader Joe's Pad Thai at my desk during my lunch break.

                  So, thank you.
                  Barn rat for life

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by caffeinated View Post
                    I'm not sure which side gave me my bad rating... haha
                    LOL...I'm just waiting to get my bad rating for pointing it out
                    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Concetta View Post
                      ultimately ....my fault for not doing my own vetting....lesson learned
                      Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                        LOL...I'm just waiting to get my bad rating for pointing it out
                        1-2-3-4 I declare a thumb war
                        Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                          LOL...I'm just waiting to get my bad rating for pointing it out
                          I know! My perfect "Good" score was ruined! Just ruined, I tell you on because of my post here! It's all COTH's fault!

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                            I know! My perfect "Good" score was ruined! Just ruined, I tell you on because of my post here! It's all COTH's fault!
                            Reed, if you have a perfect "good" score, you aren't trying hard enough.
                            ************
                            "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                            "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Holy horse hockey Batman, just when the other thread gets shut down, we have this for the 5 O'clock hour. . . although I doubt it will last until 5 O'clock
                              RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

                              "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                OK anonymous-people-giving-me-bad-ratings, this isn't eBay and it doesn't matter in the wider world of COTH. Everything I said is legit, sorry if it pisses you off. Caveat Emptor, due diligence, and all that shiznit.

                                Good lord
                                COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                                "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                                  I know! My perfect "Good" score was ruined! Just ruined, I tell you on because of my post here! It's all COTH's fault!
                                  LOL...we could all petition the Mods to "erase" the ratings on this thread



                                  In reality...this thread should be shut down. Nothing is really to be learned or related to eventing. It is a liable suit just waiting to be filed.....
                                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    I am not sure I even get why there is so much panties bunching about a horse that goes sound, whose feet seem fine (the OP did not notice on her own that there is some evil issue) and even the vets say is fine?

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                      LOL...we could all petition the Mods to "erase" the ratings on this thread ...

                                      I rate this thread 2 thumbs up for entertainment!!!

                                      I am still going to find some rat bastard at COTH to blame since I just got ANOTHER bad rating for my last post! Or, maybe it's tle's fault?

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        *Raises hand* I have a confession... I have never done a PPE. It has, knock on wood, never bitten me yet. But I know that if I choose to sell a horse later I may or may not like what those x rays tell me and what a buyer's reaction is. It is what it is. I do not buy for resale and I have the land to retire a horse if I needed to as well so I don't care as much about things like the OP mentioned.

                                        OP... when you don't get a PPE you are saying you agree with me. That you didn't care about changes that don't effect soundness because you chose not to have x rays. By your own admission this horse is very fancy and very sound to date. You will find a buyer, may just take giving them a discount.

                                        Sounds to me like Pat has been generous with you and has returned horses in the past. Perhaps this has spoiled you... this is actually strange to me for a professional seller. She has gone the extra mile to make you happy, and the line is drawn here. If your sales contract says you bought the horse as is, that isn't pretty language nor is it subjective. You bought the horse stock lock and barrel. Sometimes a calculated risk (no PPE) pays off, sometimes not. That is just how it is.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                          I am not sure I even get why there is so much panties bunching about a horse that goes sound, whose feet seem fine (the OP did not notice on her own that there is some evil issue) and even the vets say is fine?

                                          The COTH BB: The #1 leading cause of bunched panties.

                                          Barn rat for life

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