• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Retired Racehorse Retraining Program is back! Yay!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    I guess I disagree a bit with Emily on this one. I have no problem seeing the 4 horses with Steuart. To me, the focus of this program should be and is more geared to the racing industry and what they should do about their horses. This is showing that for probably LESS than what it costs for them to keep a horse in race training for a short while, they can make a small investment in these horses and get them into the show world.

    It shows that these horses are not "nothing" if they are not racehorses and will hopefully encourage racing owners to maybe stop a bit sooner with a horse and to maybe put a little money into them to find them a second life. Show that they have some worth...and that it isn't that hard to find the right hands to get them in to turn them around and get them restarted.

    I do not think this is geared for the average joe ammie to go buy an ex-race horse and here is what you do to restart them. Although I do think people can pick up some tips by watching how an experienced trainner deals with them and with 4 very different horses, can see the different progression rates.
    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

    Comment


    • #22
      Re: Kauto Star-they keep saying he's been sent to a major dressage trainer but he's actually at Laura Collett's barn I think and I would argue that Yogi Breisner would be more accurately identified as the coach/chef d'equipe of the GBR eventing squad and not as a "dressage trainer". He does have a history with national hunt horses so maybe that's why the owner sent the horse there and maybe he's there because that's who the owner knows and LC is a good dressage rider, but I think it's interesting that the press seems to be carefully avoiding the word eventing. If you're aiming for straight dressage, why not go to Carl Hester?

      Comment


      • #23
        The Guardian says her yard is right down the road from the owner's house.
        Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by NCRider View Post

          Edited to add, after seeing Emily's post, I'm not seeing the ego trip that you're hinting at. I think you and the elephant are alone in the room. I like most of your posts and I think you have a lot of offer but sometimes I think you look for the bad in people. I'm usually pretty pessimistic about human nature but I'm a little incredulous that you would accuse them of doing this for the training board. The repurposing of OTTBs into sport horses is SP's life's passion. He's a professional who is committed to the TB. I think this new challenge idea is a great one. I watched all four videos, and I've been reading the updates. The level of passion and committment he and his team seem to have already developed into each of these horses after such a short time is inspiring.
          Ok to be fair let me clarify what I am talking about.

          1.) MANY people wanted to be trainers in this second round of the challenge

          2.) Many people were up for sending their horses to the second round of this challenge

          3.) NONE of the folks in 1 or 2 were used.

          I have respect for anyone who retrains and gives an ottb a new purpose. Simple as that. But where last year's challenge thrived on the diversity this years challenge is locked into only half the storylines.

          Remember last year we had 4 horses and 4 trainers to root for. This year we have only the horses to "root" for. Now they are nice horses an I am excited to see Declan's Moon out and about. I am just hoping his soundness issues stay in the closet.

          I guess as a spectator and someone who spoke to him at the Harrisburg expo, I am wondering where his game plan changed? Last year he described the challenge this year as going to be "More open to more trainers and more diverse."

          Now I get that plans change.

          I am not looking for the bad in people. But I question the motives when one minute the plan is to include more folks, and the next minute the only person doing the work is the one who organized the program to begin with and is the only one taking in funds. Last year 4 underknown trainers were compensated for their work. This year, only one person is being compensated and will get the additional lessons, sales, marketing tie in for this.

          Like it or not there are other people who will also recognize this change and wonder about it. I at least am willing to wonder aloud.

          I have no beef with the Pittmans. I have no problem with retraining Tb's. But as someone else said... we could, without meaning to, be sending a message that to get a Tb you need to send it off for pro training to be successful. And that's just not true in every case.

          ~Emily
          "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

          Comment


          • #25
            Emily--There is also already a big OTTB trainers challenge going on right now with I think 10 trainers and $10K in prize money.


            I don't have a problem doing something different this year and then maybe doing the other format next year.
            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

            Comment


            • #26
              I saw that. Can't find any specific details on it but I think that one could be very cool.

              Does anyone have a link to more info on that?

              Em
              "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                I saw that. Can't find any specific details on it but I think that one could be very cool.

                Does anyone have a link to more info on that?

                Em

                Called Battle of the X's

                http://mythoroughbredblog.blogspot.c...challenge.html

                Remember Me Rescue

                http://www.teamkeen.com/


                There is a Facebook page that is pretty active but I can't link to it (blocked at work).

                There is also this one going on that Boyd posted about---as another format.

                http://boydandsilvamartin.blogspot.c...ontest-in.html
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                Comment


                • #28
                  As an aside, I wouldn't call Eric Dierks underknown.

                  And the sole purpose of the retraining project is not about giving additional publicity to underknown OTTB restarters. It's also about gaining more publicity within the racing industry for what the horses can do afterwards. For that reason, the presence of Declan's Moon and Suave Jazz are key for this challenge. Were the connections of either horse going to drop it into a pool to be randomly assigned or selected by unknown trainers? If I'm the connections of those horses, I'd rather have the horses under management of one trainer so that the trainer is not a part of the competition.

                  I also like the Maryland connection-the idea of MD racing/breeding connections competing to see whose OTTB is best is a great idea. And standardizing the training allows it to be about the horses. It sounds like you wanted a larger version of the last challenge. Maybe they'll do that at some point. This challenge is different. There doesn't have to be a nefarious purpose to it. And I say that as someone who also see ghosts where there aren't any sometimes (see my above questions about Kauto Star-thanks for the clarification).

                  Where I think your posts rub me the wrong way sometimes is that you say things that imply insider knowledge that supports your negative opinions about people and circumstances but I have no way of knowing if you really know something I don't or if you're blowing up minor bits of info you know to make your positions seem more valid. What soundness problems did Declan's Moon have that would still impact his ability to do dressage after 4 years running around a field? Who were all these other top notch underknown professional OTTB restarters who wanted to be a part of a 100 day challenge. Who were all the other nice moving OTTBs whose owners wanted to place them in the Challenge?

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I actually think the change in format is interesting, and love the participation of the MD breeders

                    Last year was VERY cool and I loved how the format got so many people excited about it. But on the flip side, it was sort of hard to compare the horses and their progress with the variables between the trainers and their different approaches. Now I think it will be equally cool to see how one trainer approaches different issues and histories.

                    I love learning about this stuff, which is why I've enjoyed the whole canter blog process (mostly reading jess's, since I haven't been riding in some time, heh). And I'll be following along this year too because there's so much to learn from these things.
                    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                    My CANTER blog.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      My sister and I are sending our horses to Dodon Farm for training after the first of the year. We're very excited to have our horses there while the Retraining Program is going on!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Whether or not there's an elephant in the room, if it gives the OTTB the positive attention it deserves, then I'm all for it.
                        "Life ain't always beautiful, but it's a beautiful ride."

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Why shouldn't he be compensated for something that he is basically taking the time and effort to organize? If you have such great ideas about the way things should be done then by all means get out there and make it happen. I figure it is his brain child and he can run it whatever way he thinks works best. There could be a million reasons why he found the other format difficult and since he is the one organizing than he should do whatever is easiest for him to put together. I am totally impressed that they have time to organize this on top of running their own business.

                          Who cares if the horse had a lameness issue at the track? Isn't the point to show that ottb's can have useful careers after the track regardless of previous soundness issues, age, number of starts, etc? I LOVE the idea of promoting horses that other people may pass right by because they don't consider them useful. I think he will do a great job of showing that these horses do have value if you give them a chance.
                          http://www.benchmarksporthorses.com/

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Of course the Pittman's are getting paid for retraining the horses, just as the trainers from the last group were paid. I don't see what's so nefarious about that. It is what they do, train/ride/show/sale horses for money. I really doubt that what they are being paid even comes close to covering what they have spent in terms of both their own money and their time to get this thing going, but no one ever cares to look at that for some reason.
                            You also don't know the ins and outs of the contracts the Pittmans' have with these owners. Maybe they aren't charging the owners their normal rate, maybe the owners felt more comfortable having someone they are more familiar with or has a more public profile, like the Pittmans', retraining their horses, or maybe SP is looking to retire on that fat sack of loot he's scoring from the owners (kidding!).
                            I love how when someone actually gets off their arse and does something productive, there are always scores of people waiting in line to tell them how they are doing it wrong or how it could have been done better or waiting for them to fall on their face. IMO, if you don't have the intiative to take on the project yourself, at least have the good graces to smile and say "that's nice" when someone else does. It doesn't matter if it's how you would handle things because you weren't the one who actually went into action and did something, so it's a moot point.

                            I, personally, think this is a great format because you can see how different horses mature and develop their own styles under the same trainer. In the last challenge, someone from the outside could say "Well Brazillian Wedding was being ridden more like a hunter so she looked more huntery, but XXXX was being ridden more like a dressage horse". Here, the outsider can see more easily how Declan Moon is a dressage horse because that's what his way of going lends itself to, or Alluring Punch, or whichever. I think it will be a friendlier learning format for people who aren't necessarily in the english riding world of horses to see the development of how different horses might be suited to different disciplines naturally.
                            Rhode Islands are red;
                            North Hollands are blue.
                            Sorry my thoroughbreds
                            Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Question: Will these OTTBs be for sale?
                              -Ann

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
                                Question: Will these OTTBs be for sale?

                                I believe the blog said that some of these OTTBs and a few others would be for sale at the final.
                                Rhode Islands are red;
                                North Hollands are blue.
                                Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I'll take that Gunport mare any day, even with her spooky nature in the indoor the first time. She's nervous to the point of shaking but she doesn't put a single foot wrong and is trying so hard to please while being curious. She was really enjoying the petting. I think she might be a bit difficult at first, a mare like that wants someone to put her faith in and she'll jump the world for you once she has it, her neck and shoulder and the way she walks even nervous is just fantastic. Such a daisy cutter too and nice short back.
                                  Last edited by enjoytheride; Dec. 12, 2012, 06:15 PM.
                                  http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Let's keep some perspective here, people.

                                    I actually like this format better, but regardless of the format, the important thing is that there's another pretty gray girl to root for. That's what the people want, and what our sport needs. Pretty gray ponies with a sprinkling of estrogen to sweeten the deal. I know whereof I speak.

                                    I love that there's a 9-year-old campaigner in there. Hopefully people see that the ones with mileage and wisdom are more than worth a look.
                                    Shut up! You look fine! --Judybigredpony
                                    Ms. Brazil

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      I <heart> the Two Punch colt. And I've only got one redhead in the field and it'd be nice to add another.




                                      Originally posted by gr8fulrider View Post
                                      Let's keep some perspective here, people.

                                      I actually like this format better, but regardless of the format, the important thing is that there's another pretty gray girl to root for. That's what the people want, and what our sport needs. Pretty gray ponies with a sprinkling of estrogen to sweeten the deal. I know whereof I speak.

                                      I love that there's a 9-year-old campaigner in there. Hopefully people see that the ones with mileage and wisdom are more than worth a look.
                                      -Ann

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Interesting comments. Our Board of Directors struggled with the format question. We have all thought it would be great to do a large Trainer Challenge where amateurs, professionals, celebrities, juniors could go out, find a horse, train it, and present it. We may someday, or maybe somebody else will. There is one being planned in Texas with seven horses, and I met last week with a racetrack PR manager who wants to do one at a racetrack.

                                        RRTP, however, needed to come up with something exciting for the MD and PA expos, which limits us to one hour sessions. We are lucky to squeeze four horses into those arenas and present them in an hour.

                                        Last year's Challenge was a huge success in terms of fulfilling our mission: to increase demand for Thoroughbreds off the track. It reached a lot of people, showed horses off well, and taught training methods. Tiffany, Eric, and Kerry set a standard for others to aspire to, I thought.

                                        The RRTP web site lists 218 professional trainers with rates, facilities, and experience, who specialize in horses off the track. It also includes 118 placement organizations and farms in Sources For Horses. Someday I'd like to get all these folks together for a national forum. We all think we're great at this but we all do it differently. We have a lot to learn from each other.

                                        We believe that a part of the key to increasing demand for OTTBs is to show the public the best side of horse racing. We want equestrians and racing people to communicate better, trust each other more, and basically celebrate the Thoroughbred horse together. The involvement of Sagamore, Country Life, Walnut Green, and Northview was key to pulling this format off. We got lucky with four very different, very magnificent horses. The idea of doing it all at one farm came from the fascination that I and others have had with the 100 Day Stallion Test done by warmblood registries. We think it's a fantastic way to evaluate a group of horses, and since our goal is to demonstrate how wonderful and desirable these horses are, we decided to go with a single site and single training staff.

                                        The RRTP board made a decision to accept a proposal from Dodon Farm Training Center in spite of the fact that it is owned and run by the board's president. To comply with our conflict of interest policy, I and my wife Erin recused ourselves and the board made the decision after comparing rates, staffing, and facilities at other farms. Dodon Farm is contracting directly with the owners of the horses for training at a reduced rate.

                                        Yes, Dodon Farm will benefit from the publicity, and yes I will be acting as head trainer. We will, however, have guest riders come in to evaluate the horses. I will do my best to ensure that this 100 Day Thoroughbred Challenge not only inspires more people to consider OTTBs for sport, but also offers insight to some on how to succeed with the horses they ride.

                                        Updates will always be announced on our Facebook Page. We won't be as funny as Kerry Blackmer, as professional as Eric Dierks, or as sweet as Tiffany Cattledge, and we may not do as good a job as any of them, but as Bruce Davidson once told me when I asked how he could stand putting inexperienced working students on his lovely horses, "the cream rises to the top." We'll do the best we know how, and I suspect that these horses are so special that they will make even me and my staff look like we know what we are doing.
                                        Steuart Pittman
                                        Dodon Farm
                                        Davidsonville, Maryland

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                                          Ok to be fair let me clarify what I am talking about.

                                          1.) MANY people wanted to be trainers in this second round of the challenge

                                          2.) Many people were up for sending their horses to the second round of this challenge

                                          3.) NONE of the folks in 1 or 2 were used.
                                          Color me confused about why the people in 1&2 can't get together and do a challenge that better meets their needs/wants/requirements? Last I checked, there are an AWFUL lot of horses out there, and no shortage of opportunities to help publicize them to all kinds of target audiences - no monopoly on this!

                                          Steuart -thanks for taking the time to respond - clearly a well thought through plan, and will provide an interesting counterpoint to the other "challenge" approaches. The link to 100 day testing didn't occur to me - but now that you mention it, it's a great one!

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X