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?? about flying lead changes

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  • #81
    Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Actually, the OP talked about comparing the hunter training to the eventer training. It wouldn't be much of a comparison if you only allow one side to participate. So it seems the OP did want to "here" about it.

    The dig about "lunged to death" and "prepped" and "cocktail" is really unecessary. You are seriously implying that that is "basic" training methods for hunters?
    Thanks SO MUCH for catching my spelling error. You are really too kind. Do you feel very clever now?

    Frankly, you're being utterly disingenuous about wanting make a valid comparison. The first few posts on this thread pointed out that this has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum. (And really, thanks for adding a bit more "nauseum" to that!) Her question was well answered by the end of the first page. You are obviously only interested in bombarding us all with your opinions about what eventers' training priorities should be, based on your own - NON-EVENTING - experience and opinions.

    And no, since you are apparently a real stickler for having things quoted correctly, I neither said nor implied that "prepping" horses was a basic training METHOD, I said it was part of the VERNACULAR OF BASIC TRAINING METHODS - or perhaps, to use your own language, a very common cover-up for "holes" in the training of horses and riders in your sport.

    Perhaps you could take your tsk-tsking back to the HJ board and lecture those folks about those holes instead?

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    • #82
      Can I just put it out there.... I heart baxtersmom!

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      • #83
        Aw *blushes*

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        • #84
          OK that's just a little too much PDA.

          Snoopy you're just trying to remind everyone why you're one of the popular kids.

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          • #85
            in the spirit of Christmas. Santa will give you flying lead changes if you ask for them nicely. Sometimes the changes are just a gift at first asking, sometimes you must be very very good do all your chores and maybe you will find one or two in your Christmas stocking.

            But if you don't ask Santa he will never know what you want .

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            • #86
              Originally posted by subk View Post
              OK that's just a little too much PDA.

              Snoopy you're just trying to remind everyone why you're one of the popular kids.

              Gosh, I have never been part of the cool kids club!

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              • #87
                Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                OK, not to be snarky here, but the dressage training scale is:

                RHYTHM -> SUPPLENESS -> CONTACT ->IMPULSION -> STRAIGHTNESS -> COLLECTION

                The order in which you develop counter canter and flying lead changes is not prescribed.
                Actually, the order in which different movement are added to the dressage tests as they increase in difficulty is deliberate and very much related to the training scale. A flying change doesn't show up until the end of Third Level (last I looked) but a counter canter is introduced at First Level. The counter canter is a great tool to begin to teach straightness at the canter, but until you have some sufficiency at straightnesss in the canter you wouldn't teach a flying change according to the scale.

                Eventers, in fact, have arguments about our upper level tests that are beginning to deviate from the order of things according to the scale. They have started compressing levels and getting movements a bit out of order. In some ways it is the same argument as the flying change one. The scale works, we like the scale, but teaching the flying change to a young horse is not in any way, shape, or form within the realm of the scale. So we fudge and instead of teaching it right away to youngsters we are paitent and wait until our horses start to offer them. It is a compromise between the dressage scale and what hunters do and we like it that way because it works for us.

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                • #88
                  There's some great insight into the training scale (and a couple comments on changes) in this David O'Connor seminar recap from Eventing Nation:
                  http://eventingnation.com/home/david...-training.html

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                    I'm really not trying to dig into you personally, MJ. But I guess to me, your entire post is really confirming what almost all the experienced eventers have been saying on this thread -- that EVENTERS who TRAIN THEIR OWN HORSES have OTHER PRIORITIES than "putting changes" on our BN/N/T levels horses.

                    I think the point is that no one here wants to here from people WHO DON'T EVENT about how our training priorities are all wrong. Especially coming from people who compete in a world where "lunged to death" and "prepped" and "cocktail" are part of the basic vernacular of "training methods."
                    First Off, I do event. I do not compete in the HJ circuit. I just train with a H/J trainer because I get a lot more out of my lessons. Maybe the real problem is that changes aren't a priority? If you are paying a trainer then they should have the same attitude towards training your horse the same thing.

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
                      First Off, I do event. I do not compete in the HJ circuit. I just train with a H/J trainer because I get a lot more out of my lessons. Maybe the real problem is that changes aren't a priority? If you are paying a trainer then they should have the same attitude towards training your horse the same thing.
                      Um, didn't you just do your *first* event this summer? Hence when I said "experienced" eventers in my post? I also DIDN'T say anything about where you do compete.

                      And no, the "real problem" is NOT that changes aren't a priority. There are plenty of other things (many of them safety-related, like say, a good rebalancing half-halt and a horse that can carry itself over terrain?) that are already APPROPRIATE priorities for our sport.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        I have a headache

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
                          I have a headache

                          Me too...about 50 posts ago.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            btw, I do train changes to horses that are beginning or at training level. And i do it the old fashion hunter way, with a pole on the ground, and also through canter walk transitions. I later "re-train" them the classical way at intermediate, as I train one level above where I am competing. So Finn McCool does his changes the hunter way (I do not run him into a wall, all helter skelter, btw) and Mick is now doing nice changes in a 3rd level frame and mentality (until we get to a competition where he squeals like a pig as he approaches X).

                            And I don't think about training scales or muddle up my brain with such deep thoughts. I just do it, and it is easy and I don't make a big deal about it. And it all depends greatly on the particular horse. I have a young Oldenburg/Conn who hasn't competed yet and he has offered nice changes recently and i just let them happen and ask gently whenever whe land on the outside lead.

                            I realize that this debate, which seems to involve several here, has escalated to the level of pedantry (sorry, but that's the way it sounds). I just take training and life in general in a much more simple way... works for me.

                            ducking.

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                            • #94
                              [QUOTE=ahbaumgardner;670637}

                              ducking.[/QUOTE]


                              Honey, It is Duck, Tuck, and Roll! :-)

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                              • #95
                                Originally posted by snoopy View Post
                                Honey, It is Duck, Tuck, and Role! :-)

                                Hey, isn't that roll and not role?? bahaha! Gotcha!

                                (just trying to stay with the theme)

                                ducking, tucking, and rolling.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #96
                                  I think it's stop, drop and roll....done that a few times, not related to grammar school fire drills...

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
                                    I have a headache
                                    Originally posted by snoopy View Post
                                    Me too...about 50 posts ago.
                                    Masochists. Why do you open this post if it causes you pain?

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
                                      Hey, isn't that roll and not role?? bahaha! Gotcha!

                                      (just trying to stay with the theme)

                                      ducking, tucking, and rolling.

                                      You caught me whilst I was editing grammatical errors!

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by subk View Post
                                        Masochists. Why do you open this post if it causes you pain?

                                        Pain is good. Yes mistress!!!! :-)

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by snoopy View Post
                                          Pain is good. Yes mistress!!!! :-)
                                          snoopy, I hope this doesn't come as a shock for you, but the are MUCH better websites to be cruising for that than this one...

                                          Comment

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