• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

2013 FEI Eventing Rules--has anyone seen them?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    I believe that the rider qualification part of the new rule is meant to keep amature riders from buying a 4star horse and competeing it at that level, when they have no business doing so, which is understandable.
    The rest? I don't understand.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by skydy View Post
      I believe that the rider qualification part of the new rule is meant to keep amature riders from buying a 4star horse and competeing it at that level, when they have no business doing so, which is understandable.
      The rest? I don't understand.
      So we want to keep Peter Barry out of FEI Events? He has no business competing at that level?

      Given that the "old" rules seemed pretty good at making sure competent riders were competing, what was so significant to make such a change you allude too.

      As I remember, Karen O'Connor bought a 4* horse, ran it at a 4* show and did not do so well. Guess that is okay because shes a "professional".

      Now if your thought was "We, the FEI, want to just exclude the amateur from the sport"...now you'd be on to something. A "hey we need to protect the Ammies" argument really does not hold water.

      As JER pointed out, there is nothing to indicate a need for such change and while it would be great for any equestrian publication or media source to do some digging and get answers to some basic questions, the prevailing winds indicate a "Don't worry, be happy" stance.

      Comment


      • #43
        I think they were pointing the rider rule at people who are not accomplished riders , perhaps those who would not be safe, having never ridden at ,say the 2* level who decide to buy an advanced horse and start at the top.( I am guessing).
        The way the rules are written however may very well cause a lot of problems for people who are perfectly well qualified.
        The "hey this is about horse welfare" is completely disingenuous in my opinion, especially as the excuse given for preventing FEI competitors from competing at non-FEI events. Bunk!

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by skydy View Post
          I believe that the rider qualification part of the new rule is meant to keep amature riders from buying a 4star horse and competeing it at that level, when they have no business doing so, which is understandable.
          The rest? I don't understand.
          I don't see how this has anything to do with professional vs amateur. It does have everything to do with experience and safety. I do not think that someone who has never run a 4* should go out and purchase a 4* horse and compete it at that level, without running first at a lower level. Just like I don't think a person who has run a 4* should go out and buy a 2* horse and run a 4*, without running first at a lower level.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
            I don't see how this has anything to do with professional vs amateur. It does have everything to do with experience and safety. I do not think that someone who has never run a 4* should go out and purchase a 4* horse and compete it at that level, without running first at a lower level. Just like I don't think a person who has run a 4* should go out and buy a 2* horse and run a 4*, without running first at a lower level.
            It doesn't. Perhaps my post was poorly worded.

            However the amateur seems to be the focus of the FEI at this point in time. As convoluted as the new rules are, I don't know whether they would prevent your second scenario from happening or not...

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by skydy View Post
              I think they were pointing the rider rule at people who are not accomplished riders , perhaps those who would not be safe, having never ridden at ,say the 2* level who decide to buy an advanced horse and start at the top.( I am guessing).
              The way the rules are written however may very well cause a lot of problems for people who are perfectly well qualified.
              The "hey this is about horse welfare" is completely disingenuous in my opinion, especially as the excuse given for preventing FEI competitors from competing at non-FEI events. Bunk!
              This could never have happened before. The rider has to be qualified for each level starting at Prelim and above. If a rider is not qualified for Prelim, even if they buy a four star horse, they would be able to start no higher than Training. If they have run a 2* but no higher, they would be able to run no higher than 2* immediately, and I know they would even have to run at least one Intermediate with the new horse before running a two star. (The rules gurus can verify or refute this, I'm not digging through the rules right now.) A rider could definitely never buy a four star horse and run it above the level at which they are qualified right off the bat. The rider would only be able to use the horse to continue their qualifications until they reached four star. The protection from this practice was already in place; it's just even stronger now. And stronger means more expensive and time consuming.
              Comedic Eventing on Facebook

              Comment


              • #47
                There seemed to be a lot of concern regarding the abilities of some of the "non traditional eventing nation's" riders in the Olympics and at the Pan Am games.

                Perhaps this barrage of rule revising is an attempt to assuage those concerns?
                I don't know, like most folks I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the actions of the FEI., which, now that I've said that, I realise is an excercise in futility..

                Comment


                • #48
                  This is going to be an expensive, sucky thing.

                  But, in some ways I can see it being a good thing....kinda. Looking at it from where I stand (riding a quality horse with a lot of talent, trying to make it consistently into the ULs) I have now gone from not needing to even think FEI until I was ready to do a CIC** (though, I wanted to do a CCI*), and now realizing I MUST do a CIC* if I want to do that first CIC**. It also means I still don't HAVE to do a CCI*, but I can and at least it won't be a (complete) waste of money.

                  Expensive? Hell yes. I may have to think about some ways to make some consistent extra cash this coming year to save for FEI related expenses. Time consuming? Again, hell yes. While I have a wee bit more leeway in my schedule than others, I don't have a ton, and will probably have to do some serious fancy footwork to keep the barn from imploding while I chase these qualifications.

                  So, the small, kinda (very tarnished) silver lining? I think it will force people to slow down a little in their race to get to the top. With the way things stand before these changes, you could fling up the levels pretty quickly and easily, all the while scaring the pants off of everyone who watches you go. Too easy to just charge through a handful of prelims, do a couple of intermediates and a CIC**, then leave everyone breathless (and not in a good way) at a CCI**. I think these new qualifications will slow people down a little, which can ultimately be a good (if very expensive) thing.
                  Amanda

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Divine Comedy View Post
                    . The protection from this practice was already in place; it's just even stronger now. And stronger means more expensive and time consuming.
                    Indeed!

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
                      This is going to be an expensive, sucky thing.

                      But, in some ways I can see it being a good thing....kinda. Looking at it from where I stand (riding a quality horse with a lot of talent, trying to make it consistently into the ULs) I have now gone from not needing to even think FEI until I was ready to do a CIC** (though, I wanted to do a CCI*), and now realizing I MUST do a CIC* if I want to do that first CIC**. It also means I still don't HAVE to do a CCI*, but I can and at least it won't be a (complete) waste of money.

                      Expensive? Hell yes. I may have to think about some ways to make some consistent extra cash this coming year to save for FEI related expenses. Time consuming? Again, hell yes. While I have a wee bit more leeway in my schedule than others, I don't have a ton, and will probably have to do some serious fancy footwork to keep the barn from imploding while I chase these qualifications.

                      So, the small, kinda (very tarnished) silver lining? I think it will force people to slow down a little in their race to get to the top. With the way things stand before these changes, you could fling up the levels pretty quickly and easily, all the while scaring the pants off of everyone who watches you go. Too easy to just charge through a handful of prelims, do a couple of intermediates and a CIC**, then leave everyone breathless (and not in a good way) at a CCI**. I think these new qualifications will slow people down a little, which can ultimately be a good (if very expensive) thing.
                      Amanda, I appreciate your sentiment but I am not sure this will make people slow down. A CIC* at one venue can easily be less challenging than a Prelim at another. You have to qualify for the CCI2* at intermediate and through a CIC**. Why do we now have to qualify for the 2* through a 1*? I am scrambling to find the 1* for next spring and realizing that it will be much more expensive, as I have to travel outside of the area. This means fewer more local events at intermediate and less prep for my ultimate CCI** goal. As an amateur on a limited budget, this just makes it all tougher to do, and does not present more training/prep opportunities for Mick or for me.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
                        I think these new qualifications will slow people down a little, which can ultimately be a good (if very expensive) thing.
                        I agree. However, the main issue I run into is by slowing the process down (not a bad thing opinion), you run into the issue of qualifications expiring after the two calendar years.

                        Say you can only do two FEI events a year. I feel this is not an unreasonable schedule.

                        Here's an example schedule:

                        You move up to Prelim in 2013 and spend the year at Prelim. In the summer or fall you do a CIC*, and a CCI*.

                        In 2014, you decide to move up to Intermediate. You do a CIC2* at the end of your spring season and a CCI2* in the fall. But now you're out of $$/vacation days for the year.

                        In 2015, you move up to Advanced, and want to end the spring with a CIC3*. But oops! You need two CIC2* for that. So you run a CIC2* in the spring. In the fall, you get your CIC3*.

                        Its 2016 now and your CIC* and CCI* is expired. You have a CIC2* and a CCI2* that will expire the following year, so you need to get everything you need with them in 2016. You still need another CIC3* and a CCI3* to run a CCI4*. Great, you run another CIC3* at the end of the spring season and a CCI3* at the end of the fall.

                        In 2017, you have a CIC3* that will expire the following year and a CIC3* and CCI3* that are fine. Great, you go to your CCI4*.

                        So, it's doable.

                        The kicker is that you better not have an injury to your horse in those four years leading up to Rolex, or it's likely that some of your earned qualifications will expire. You also better get your MER at every single one of those competitions. Remember, you have limited time and $$ and can only afford to attend two FEI shows a year, regardless of whether you get your MER or not. (In this scenario, at least.)

                        So you basically must have Plan A working for four years straight. And how often does Plan A ever actually work with horses?

                        Now, if you get your CCI2* or CCI3*, according to the current rules (if I am reading them correctly), you are established at that CCI level. If that establishment expires, you can simply run two Intermediates or Advanceds (the rules state at the CNC level or higher, so I think this is right), and you are re-qualified to enter that CCI level again without getting all the FEI requirements. So if you lose your CCI2* establishment, run two Intermediates and enter another CCI2*. So not all is lost there.

                        However, if you lose your establishment at a CIC level, it's gone and you have to completely requalify. For example, if you lose your CIC3* due to injury, life, etc, you must get two CIC2* to compete at a CIC3* again. But oh wait, you need a CIC1* to compete at a CIC2*, because if your CIC3* is expired, your CIC2* and CIC1* are definitely expired. So you could have a horse who has gotten a CIC3* MER, has an injury and is off for a while, and have to bring him back at the CIC1* level. Start all over, basically. How does that sound? I would prefer to see something better for re-establishing 'establishment' at CIC levels.

                        I would also feel a lot better about these qualifications if they would allow the MERs to not expire for three calendar years afterwards instead of only two.
                        Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Ann, I think part of the issue is there was no warning the qualifications would change. If you had known, you probably would have tried to run a CIC* and maybe a CIC2* in your area last year in preparation for riding at the CIC2*/CCI2* level this year. Now you're left scrambling to fit a CIC*, two CIC2*, and a CCI2* into your schedule. If you'd had time to prepare for the change, you would have been able to find shows in your area that fit in your schedule last year.

                          So I agree with yellowbritches, ultimately it will slow down the qualification process, which might be a good thing for safety I suppose, but I fear it may slow the path so much that only professionals can make it work.

                          EN is reporting that the USEF has asked for a delay to the changes until 2014. I would dearly love this to be true, as it would give us all a year to prepare, and give us all a bit of breathing room. It would solve your problem, Ann, you would still only need a CIC2* and CCI2* this year.

                          I'm not going to bet on it, though. Not sure USEF has the influence to change the FEI without the help of a few other countries. Preferably the European ones.
                          Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Can you exchange a CCI* for a CIC*? I really don't want to have to run a CIC* just to do a CIC**, which is now needed for a CCI**. I am an amateur too and in school so it is very hard for me to make it to FEI events...

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Divine Comedy View Post
                              Ann, I think part of the issue is there was no warning the qualifications would change. If you had known, you probably would have tried to run a CIC* and maybe a CIC2* in your area last year in preparation for riding at the CIC2*/CCI2* level this year. Now you're left scrambling to fit a CIC*, two CIC2*, and a CCI2* into your schedule. If you'd had time to prepare for the change, you would have been able to find shows in your area that fit in your schedule last year.

                              So I agree with yellowbritches, ultimately it will slow down the qualification process, which might be a good thing for safety I suppose, but I fear it may slow the path so much that only professionals can make it work.

                              EN is reporting that the USEF has asked for a delay to the changes until 2014. I would dearly love this to be true, as it would give us all a year to prepare, and give us all a bit of breathing room. It would solve your problem, Ann, you would still only need a CIC2* and CCI2* this year.

                              I'm not going to bet on it, though. Not sure USEF has the influence to change the FEI without the help of a few other countries. Preferably the European ones.
                              DC, you are so right. I would have run a 1* in 2011, for sure. And I am crossing digits that they will decide to institute the new rules in 2014. That would be awesome! And your calculations for what is needed to get to Rolex are mind-boggling. I am definitely NOT Rolex bound. I just dream of Fair Hil CCI**.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Summies182 View Post
                                Can you exchange a CCI* for a CIC*? I really don't want to have to run a CIC* just to do a CIC**, which is now needed for a CCI**. I am an amateur too and in school so it is very hard for me to make it to FEI events...
                                As far as I read it, you must have a CIC* to do a CIC2*. So no, unless there is some obscure rule that I'm not aware of. I don't believe there is, though.

                                You don't need a CCI* at all. So run a CIC* instead of at CCI*.

                                If you run a CCI*, you can get away with only running one CIC2* before a CCI2*. However, you must have two CIC2* to run a CIC3*. So the least amount of FEI events to run for qualification purposes would be a CIC1*, two CIC2*, a CCI2*, two CIC3*, a CCI3* before CCI4*. If you use a CCI1* for your CCI2*, you would need a CIC1*, CCI1*, two CIC2*, a CCI2*, two CIC3*, a CCI3* for a four star. Running a CCI1* adds an additional FEI event to the total.
                                Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
                                  And your calculations for what is needed to get to Rolex are mind-boggling.
                                  I think entirely too much.
                                  Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    OK that is confusing! I already have a CCI* so was hoping to use that for a CIC*. I don't think I could do a CIC*, CIC** and a CCI** this spring way too much missing class and finances!

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Reading your posts, I have an even greater appreciation for how difficult qualifying is going to be for many people. The schedule is tight even if EVERYTHING goes according to plan. Heaven forbid your horse develops an abscess leading up to one of the precious FEI competitions.

                                      As I said earlier, if you're in Britain or the EU, you just reroute to another FEI event the week after or so. If you're almost anywhere else, you're out of luck unless you travel a great distance (and are lucky enough to manage a late entry).

                                      I can't imagine what riders in countries where FEI events are few and far between can do besides immigrate.
                                      They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                      Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Summies182 View Post
                                        OK that is confusing! I already have a CCI* so was hoping to use that for a CIC*. I don't think I could do a CIC*, CIC** and a CCI** this spring way too much missing class and finances!
                                        This is why the FEI should give us a year to prepare for the changes.Most people who are aiming for a CIC2* or CCI2* this spring do not have a CIC1* because it was previously unnecessary.
                                        Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          To put this in perspective you used to need the following FEI qualifiers at bare minimum to run a CCI4*:

                                          1 CIC2*
                                          1 CCI2*
                                          1 CIC3*
                                          1 CCI3*

                                          So four total.

                                          Under the new rules, you need:

                                          1 CIC1*
                                          2 CIC2*
                                          1 CCI2*
                                          2 CIC3*
                                          1 CCI3*

                                          So now seven total.

                                          You've almost doubled the number of events needed. That's extremely significant, and will certainly slow down the qualification process.
                                          Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X