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Pedigree critique anyone?

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  • Pedigree critique anyone?

    We just got a new horse - I haven't met him yet (he lives with my parents and I'll be meeting him this weekend) but he looks super gorgeous and by all accounts is a serious gentleman.

    Would anyone be willing to have a look at his pedigree for me? From my limited knowledge it doesn't look like anything particularly special, but I would love to hear from one of the serious pedigree geeks who might have some more insight!

    Here he is: http://www.pedigreequery.com/escobar10

    Thanks all!
    The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears. ~ Arabian Proverb
  • Original Poster

    Bump. Anyone?
    The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears. ~ Arabian Proverb


    • #3
      OK, Northern Dancer on both sides but only once each. His paternal grandsire is El Gran Senor who won 1/2 million in 6 starts back when 1/2 million was alot of money. See Round Table and Swaps-Nearco too back farther on the dams side.

      While these don't mean a whole lot to the horse you have today and their influence is diluted with each generation, these horses appear in alot of sport horse pedigrees. The fact there is not alot of repetition/inbreeding is something alot of sport horse folk find attractive.

      The sire on this horse, Latin Reign? Looks like he was no household name but 52 starts says something about trainability and durability. I'm sure somebody else can look at it and give you more feedback.

      A good race record or big name at the track does not always translate to sucess in another career but that looks like a solid sporthorse kind of a background to me. How about some pictures?

      Oh, I LOVE the name Escobar.
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


      • #4
        Interesting pedigree being that that he is only 8 and from what we call in the TB breeding world an old and dead family. When the word family is used it refers to the bottom line, dam line. His grand sire El Gran Senor was named in honor for the late great trainer Haratio Luro a native of Argentina who came to the states in the late 20s. Legendary and was also the trainer of Northern Dancer. I had the good fortune of knowing he and his lovely wife for a number of years. Like a lot of Northern Dancer’s he was small in stature like his sire but a very talented on the race course. He was syndicated for quite a lot of money when retired and did well enough at stud but suffered from fertility problems and ended up being an insurance claim for infertility. Your guy’s sire Latin Reign was only stakes placed in Italy and if memory serves me might have been a very expensive yearling. Surprising that he ended up back here in the states as a stallion. Though he may have been brought back to race and did nothing of note. I suppose he ended up at stud because El Gran Senor had not been dismissed as a potential sire of sires at that time. Though Northern Dancer over Raise A Native mares was and still is a very popular and proven cross, nick, it was not with Exclusive Native mares. I would think given the fact that Exclusive Native was a larger then average then most Raise A Native horses the breeder was hoping to put some size in the resulting foal. He was a good race horse and decent sire.
        Considering your guys momma was bred to Latin Reign pretty much tells me with out going to produce records she wasn’t much of a producer nor her dam. Unraced as was her dam. Her sire Fairway Fortune was an unraced son of Northern Dancer due to issues. Named for the breeder’s farm Fairway Farm just outside Lexington, now pretty much in the suburbs and a good part of it is now a golf course. There was not much fortune to be had from him at stud and would only be a foot note in the book of TB breeding. The dams momma’s sire Gennistrellis was a moderate racehorse and I believe I sold him in the early 90s either out west but most likely to South America. I do remember him being a very good looking horse. Being by the great sire and sire of sires Hoist The Flag was given a shot at stud. Hoist The Flag was bred by Mrs. DuPont’s Bohemian Stud just the other side of the road from Winfield Farms in Maryland where Northern Dancer stood. Another that I had the good fortune of knowing a fabulous person that are not made anymore. A true lover of horses and one of the top breeders of all times. The owner and breeder of one of the greatest horses of all times, Kelso. A winner of over $1,900,000 in the early 60’s! Getting off track here sorry. Hoist The Flag did have soundness issues himself and tended to pass them own. Your guys tail female line then goes on to legendary Swaps. He was before my time and was retired by the time I started my career. Though I know he was a horse of size and substance and well respected at stud as were his daughters.
        Your guy having Northern Dancer top and bottom, a cross that was tried many times but only worked out on the race course a few times, should have substance. If he has size also I should think it came more from his bottom line then the top. IMO through his tail female line. Thought Exclusive Native maybe be contributing also. Which is probably why that cross did not work out. The vast majority of good Northern Dancers were made very much like himself, neat, compact and well made. Rarely standing more the 15-3, 16 hands, bay or dark bay, brown. Nijinsky being the exception at 16.3+?, Perhaps the Minstrel also thought he did have the same rear end as most Northern Dancers round and pleasing to the eye. Nijinsky’s fell off sharply with his tail set low.
        As I said above it’s interesting that this guy found his way into the world and makes me wonder if the stallion and his dam were being used for sport horse breeding? Because if he was being bred for racing there was hardly a wing and pray that he had a chance of him justifying the exercise. I have written all of this from memory and though there maybe more to his immediate female family the first two dams do not ring a bell and with the sires not being much more then foots notes I see no reason spend time on digging up their race track produce. I enjoyed looking over his pedigree most are rather boring and this one does have a number of horses I remember well both on the track and in person from my formative years.
        I am curious has the bottom line produced any sport horses of note?
        Last edited by gumtree; Nov. 30, 2012, 07:04 PM. Reason: for clarity


        • #5
          Lots to love about the pedigree. Exclusive Native (sire of Affirmed), Hoist the Flag, and Round Table are some of my all-time faves. El Gran Senor was a top runner in England and Europe in a very good crop of horses. He had low fertility as a stallion, but sired more than 10% stakes winners from foals.

          Another vote for photos of your guy, please!


          • #6
            Gumtree you do repeat yourself...


            • #7
              You might want to take a look at this site:

              Latin Reign is standing in Indiana and there's quite a nice photo of him, along with lots of information - it looks as if he did fairly well at the track in several countries.

              Sorry I can't provide any information about the mare, but if the stallion was standing at this farm when your horse was conceived, it's possible that the owners might have some information about her in their records, and might be able to pass your contact information to whomever owned the mare at that time. It's worth a try - previous owners often have very useful information and insights; you might even find out just why they chose that particular stallion for the mare.

              Certainly your boy is not the product of linebreeding or inbreeding, and although those things are very useful within a breeding program as such, there's a lot to be said for hybrid vigour in a sport horse!
              Home page: www.jessicajahiel.com
              Horse-Sense newsletter: www.horse-sense.org


              • Original Poster

                Thank you all so much!! You have all been extremely helpful I'm super excited about him and looking forward to meeting him. He did never race, so you're right that he might have been bred strictly as a sporthorse prospect.

                As requested, here is the only picture I have of him at the moment (sent to me a few days ago - not the best, I know), but I'm going to be meeting him this evening and would be happy to take better photos if anyone is still interested.

                The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears. ~ Arabian Proverb


                • #9
                  Hey, Gumtree, Swaps was NOT before my time (unfortunately). He won the Ky Derby in the late 50s/early 60s. California based he suffered from being owned by a...minimalist...as far as horse care goes, Rex Ellsworth. No secret there either.
                  I saw him once, standing in a pile of sh*t (Swaps, not Rex).

                  Round Table also raced alot in So Cal a little earlier then Swaps did, good stakes horse, luckier in ownership.

                  Interestingly, I see alot of these 2 in the damlines of sporthorses, both TB and some domestic WBs with known JC ancestry, including 3 of the 4 good Hunters I have had. It's back too far to prove anything but they sure are there on the dams side...as are another two from that same So Cal background and timeframe, Olden Times and TV Lark.

                  Probably meaningless but still...kind of interesting to see in more then an occaisional sporthorse pedigree.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
                    Gumtree you do repeat yourself...
                    My wife says the same thing. I guess that’s what happens after one turns 50. Especially when Irish coffees are involved. Not one of my better posts, a bit babbling with some nostalgia mixed in.
                    Not sure why it double posted. That’s happened in other treads when Irish Coffee wasn’t involved.