• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

No unrecognized or schooling shows for ULR's ...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by CDE Driver View Post
    It sounds like folks are okay with the FEI having a monopoly on competitions. Am I reading that right?
    I don't really understand the situation internationally. If it's about big competitions with no drug enforcement, then I would be okay with some measure explicitly addressing that. I don't understand how it would or could be that the FEI world cups can't get prize money but apparently this parallel circuit is awash in it. I'm not okay with the FEI saying you can't ever compete in nonsanctioned events given my current understanding.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

    Comment


    • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
      The FEI is VERY serious about their Clean Sport program, and these show series have the potential to make a mockery of what they are trying to do.
      The same could be said -- making a mockery of FEI Clean Sport -- of the USEF and its doping policies. Two names come to mind: (1) Elizabeth Mandarino, (2) Mario DesLauriers.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
        The FEI has legitimate concerns. The Global Champions Show Jumping Tour draws the top riders on their top horses. It competes with FEI Sanctioned shows and generally offers huge purses with a bonus at the end. It has managed to create shows in places that the FEI has been spending money for years to get competitions going. The "lesser" FEI shows have to do something to draw top riders on top horses.
        .
        Okay, I'm new to all this, but I read, I listen and from what I've come to understand, organizations like the FEI are presented as a means to help in the "welfare of the horse", provide structure to sports so they are run safely, and to promote equine sports. I did not believe they were created to generate profit or worry about competing shows that would draw players away.

        ---- Let's imagine ----
        Let's imagine that one day, Eventers in the US of A woke up to find the the USEF had voted on a rule. The rule is quite simple, "No member of USEA or USEF may perform in shows that are not sanctioned by USEF.". The hew and cry would be enormous. Even this lowly just minted BN, but USEA member could not go to a schooling show sponsored by Jumping Branch or FENCE or Stoneridge. Sure, I forfeit my membership, but then I can't perform in championships.

        Oh, the reasons would be things like "Well we can't guarantee the safety of horses or we can't assure the safety of riders", but what the real issue is, people don't want to spend double the cost. Schooling shows become bad business for USEF and they want them out.

        Were the USEF truly concerned about welfare and safety they would do something that would address the heart of the issue, allowing the coexistence of two worlds.
        --- End imagine ----

        Now, to speculate that FEI is concerned about doping of horses at shows not under their control is hard to believe. Unless a rider has a special horse just for non-sanctioned shows then at some point that horse will be under FEI rules and subject to testing. What rider would take the chance?

        Were this about horses then the rule would have applied just to horses. It did not. It stated horses, rider, and officials. I agree with the other poster that attempts to rationalize do more harm. The FEI was very clear at first, the more they spoke, the more confusing it became. That sounds like a bull....er to me. This was a group of people that felt they could take a power grab on the world of equine sports. For my part I hope they fail and that is because riders, officials and concerned supporters stand up and say No.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          If it adds to this discussion...the USEA officials I have spoken with are DEEPLY concerned with, and wish the best for, unrecognized events. They know they are important to the sport. They have been looking for unfunded ways to encourage the adoption of rules like the USEA's that provide safer competitions (like having ambulances on site, better and safer jumps and courses, etc.) and knowledgeable officials and organizers so that one's first taste of the sport doesn't end in a disaster. The problem is always not enough funds to develop encouragement programs.

          In racing, big money is always in sanctioned events so that the spectacle is clean, i.e., within a jurisdiction that tests. How can a multimillionaire/business supporting an unrecognized event/competiton that does not test have any sort of legitimate bragging rights if the horses that win are not tested clean?
          Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
          Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

          Comment


          • It's definitely a very poorly thought out response to the competition to sanctioned shows. What the FEI is saying is that you can either play in their sandbox or ours. You choose.

            I also agree that the USEF drug policies are ridiculous. But they make the h/j people happy. Don't know about the breeds and other disciplines.

            Have y'all noticed that drug violations (FEI and other) are almost, if not entirely, unknown in the eventing world? At least for those whose history is in eventing.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire

            Comment


            • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
              Have y'all noticed that drug violations (FEI and other) are almost, if not entirely, unknown in the eventing world? At least for those whose history is in eventing.
              touché
              The big man -- my lost prince

              The little brother, now my main man

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                I think it's proportional according to the stats on positives. 5000 jumpers....50 eventers....
                Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                Comment


                • I haven't thoroughly read all the posts, but does this mean if I enter any FEI competition, even at the 1 star level, I can't enter any other competitions? For us adult amateurs who may be considering whether or not we want to compete in FEI 1 stars versus just doing Prelim HTs, this seems like it seals the deal. For those of us on the West Coast, where there are relatively few FEI competitions in eventing, it seems like it would kill those divisions. Am I missing something?

                  Comment


                  • Yes, Vali, this rule is meant to apply to international competition and not local unrecognized HTs, schooling shows, etc. The rule was poorly written; we are waiting for official clarification.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kcmel View Post
                      Yes, Vali, this rule is meant to apply to international competition and not local unrecognized HTs, schooling shows, etc. The rule was poorly written; we are waiting for official clarification.
                      kcmel, I hate to sound like the broken record, but this rule was neither poorly written, nor well written. It was written and voted upon (or agreed too) by a governing body that took time to deliberate and choose the wording as put down.

                      You do not "Clarify" a rule, you alter it, amend it, or stricken it, but clarification is not an official act. Who wants to test this out? Which BNR or BNO, which AA like Vail wants to compete at a large schooling show, a large non-sanctioned event in 2012 and when they are suspended, attempt to challenge the rule.

                      The FEI was clear about what was considered a sanctioned event, that which was on their date calendar and/or authorised by a NF (like USEF). Everything else fails so....the only way to clarify this is to alter the rule its self. Has there been any sign that is happening? Have we heard from USEF other then "we're looking into it"?

                      My prediction, FEI will delay, obfuscate, and do nothing, waiting for the "tempest" to go down. USEF has no real bone to pick with this rule so they will also "make noise" but do nothing. Soon this will pass to be replaced with mundane topics like "did you see MLM at KOC wearing that outfit" or "OMG anther show may close" or "Hey I did my first <> show?". Good people on this list will start to go "get over it, let's move on, nothing to see here any more". Then one day someone will be used as the test example by FEI to send the signal they really did mean what they wrote all along. By then it will be too little too late and we'll see another door closing on horse riding as a somewhat less expensive sport.

                      I have no dog in this hunt. Any FEI Rider, any judge or official working with FEI does and if they are silent then they either don't care about anything outside FEI, or are too concerned how pushing back may be taken.

                      Make me wear a helmet...fine, but tell me where I can compete? Who the hell do they think they are?

                      Comment


                      • Amen JP60! I think you are spot on across the board! The people who are currently FEI riders, officials or horse owners, or those planning on becoming one of the above NEED to keep pushing USEF to stand up and get this rule officially changed/amended/etc, not just clarified in a press release!

                        The FEI is very patient and will have no problem waiting until no one is paying attention when they start enforcing this and there's no momentum to back them down. Seems to me that as we approach WEG 2014 and Rio 2016, they will have plenty of "reasons" to enforce this. I hope the USEF actually stands up for those who will be affected, but I'm skeptical...
                        TPR!
                        Thoroughbred Placement Resources, Inc
                        www.goodhorse.org

                        Comment


                        • Rock on JP60, rock on
                          Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                          The Grove at Five Points

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                            Have y'all noticed that drug violations (FEI and other) are almost, if not entirely, unknown in the eventing world? At least for those whose history is in eventing.
                            On the contrary, I have seen more Eventing related drug violations (including some big name riders, and some serious drugs, such as fluphenazine (sp?)) than I would like.

                            I agree there are not as many in Eventing as there are in H/J, and some other disciplines, but there is a mich bigger population of H/J riders.

                            I wonder what the proportional rate is?
                            Janet

                            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                            Comment


                            • Even as written, you would be free to enter all USEF/USEA (NF) events.

                              As written, there would be a restriction on UNRECOGNIZED events.

                              But that isn't what they intended, and they will (presumably) chage the wording of the rule to make that clear.

                              Originally posted by vali View Post
                              I haven't thoroughly read all the posts, but does this mean if I enter any FEI competition, even at the 1 star level, I can't enter any other competitions? For us adult amateurs who may be considering whether or not we want to compete in FEI 1 stars versus just doing Prelim HTs, this seems like it seals the deal. For those of us on the West Coast, where there are relatively few FEI competitions in eventing, it seems like it would kill those divisions. Am I missing something?
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                              Comment


                              • FEI equine anti-doping cases can be see here or here (with athlete suspensions included).

                                In 2012, out of 17 total cases, one was for an eventer. There were no eventing cases in 2011, and one in 2010.

                                The vast majority of cases are in endurance and jumping. There's a couple of drivers, and one vaulter.

                                On the current suspension list, there are 15 endurance cases, 6 jumping (although 4 are for horses and 2 are for humans), 2 in driving, 1 in vaulting and 1 in eventing. Out of these 25 cases, 13 are from the UAE. Maybe Princess Haya needs to have a talk with her husband.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by kmwines01 View Post
                                  Not an eventer but that rule seems absurd for any discipline. Terrible for trying to bring young horses up the levels or pros riding owner's green/young horses.
                                  I just cannot imagine that such a rule will pass. The organizers of the unrecognized events will take a huge hit, along with the rest of us. I happen to be an amateur who is an UL rider and if I couldn't take my babies to schooling events, I'd end up being way behind schedule in their training and exposure. It is just too expensive to waste $$ on a recognized event when a baby is just getting the hang of things.
                                  -Ann

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                    But that isn't what they intended,
                                    Oh? What was their intent? If we know their intent, why would they have not just put it in the wording in the first place.

                                    Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                    and they will (presumably) chage the wording of the rule to make that clear.
                                    Presumably? That is a lot to hope for. What impetus do they have at this point? How do they change this rule and really, who's going to make them? This was a rule approved and entered by the FEI GA. To change it now would require something similar, unless one can make changes by singular decree.

                                    Curiuoser and Curiuoser....

                                    Comment


                                    • It already has passed.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        how did we get to drug positives from rule changes? Any USEF "clarification" yet?
                                        Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                                        Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                                        Comment


                                        • Retread, it's still before 9am on Monday morning of a holiday week.

                                          Nope, no clarification yet that I've seen, but I agree with JP60's analysis and comments. Despite any potential clarifications, the rule stands as it is until amended.
                                          They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X