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No unrecognized or schooling shows for ULR's ...

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  • #41
    Originally posted by JER View Post
    My second thought was this was aimed at eliminating competition from big-money non-FEI events. This is an issue in other sports, where athletes will skip a sanctioned event to compete in a non-ISO competition that has a lot of prize money on offer.

    If the rule passes as written, I'm not sure how anyone will produce and develop competition horses in the future.
    Indeed. I had not put this thought out before, but since the FEI is the gate keeper for two of the biggest equine sports events, WEG and the Olympics, it reeks of attempting to gain more control over the sport as a whole. This is not about concern for the horse, it is about expanding control, it is about greed, and it is certainly about expanding power.

    Again, I feel this does not impact Europe as much as the US (NA) which has a higher proportion of unrecognized events. Horses in the US tend to come up through the UnRec shows by Trainer/Riders offsetting costs for training before presenting at Rec shows. I am not familiar with Europe, but from what I've read it seems there is much more oversight, more Rec type shows such that it is not hard for a Rider or Trainer to bring up horses without extra costs.

    What scheduling conflicts exist today that truly impact major FEI events? How could a rider going to some "show" have any economic impact on the show market if they take a different horse other then their main ride. How can an official taking a job at a UnRec effect the "welfare of the horse". I can see JER's point about bringing up new horses.

    The biggest question is this, how can We effect this ruling and get it removed. Will writing to USEA as a member help? Along with that, what is the position of various equine governing bodies to this ruling?

    While COTH did not have a broad article (they only reported the blood rule) I found this article which add a little to the news though much of the response from FEI seems double speak to me.
    Last edited by JP60; Nov. 14, 2012, 01:22 PM. Reason: added content

    Comment


    • #42
      http://www.i-eoc.org/FEI%20Eventing%...ember%2012.pdf

      Proposed rules changes for 2013
      ... _. ._ .._. .._

      Comment


      • #43
        It does seem to be a big hit against unrecognised shows and events. Here in Ireland, we don't have that many unaffiliated horse trials although they are starting to pop up. They are usually held at the same venues that hold recognised events, so they are great schooling outings without the worry that any bad results will be held forever on the horse's record.

        Where I am based, local dressage and showjumping events are usually held under the Governing body's rules and those who are not registered can pay a temporary registration for the day (Eventing Ireland also allows this under "Day Tickets").

        Presumably the National Federations could not give blanket recognition to all shows because events held here under Eventing Ireland are run under their rules, which generally coincide with the FEI rules. The danger of unrecognised events getting blanket coverage from the national federations could mean that some events are not run with appropriate safety measures and steps e.g. inspection by an officially appointed steward etc.

        Comment


        • #44
          Would a local organization that is a GMO of a parent organization not be considered "sanctioned under a national governing body"? That would be a solution. Or a loophole.
          Click here before you buy.

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          • #45
            But even then, not every unrecognized competition is affiliated with a GMO type organization. A friend and I were contemplating running a couple dressage/CTs next year and one of the dates I was looking at is between Jumpstart and MidSouth and was planning to offer a Prelim CT BECAUSE of 3-day folks going to MidSouth. Wouldn't be affiliated with anyone... just a schooling show.

            If the unrecognized show cannot count as a qualification for any FEI event, then exactly what business is it of the FEI (or any organization) to tell someone what they can and can't do with their life? This really is no different than if the FEI told Boyd Martin that he couldn't go skiing. One has zero effect on the other and is COMPLETELY up to those directly involved... namely the rider, his family, the horse and the owners. PERIOD. It's a power/money grab under the anorexic veil of horse welfare (and yes, stinks the same stench as the short format BS).

            Has anyone talked to anyone at the USEF/USEA? Or even an FEI judge/competitor?
            ************
            "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

            "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

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            • #46
              Originally posted by tle View Post
              But even then, not every unrecognized competition is affiliated with a GMO type organization. A friend and I were contemplating running a couple dressage/CTs next year and one of the dates I was looking at is between Jumpstart and MidSouth and was planning to offer a Prelim CT BECAUSE of 3-day folks going to MidSouth. Wouldn't be affiliated with anyone... just a schooling show.
              This really makes me wonder about the problem this rule poses to some of the better schooling/unrecognized shows in this area. Places like Waredaca, which is run by people who have FEI experience and organize a starter HT that runs as nicely as a recognized, under this rule would no longer be allowed to do so. If they're sanctioning events, would whole facilities who host unrecognized competitions lose sanctioning? I'm thinking of somewhere like the VA Horse Center, which hosts the VAHT, recognized H/J stuff, but also western, H/J schooling shows, etc. Losing events like that around here would be a terrible blow.

              This seems to be a really problematic rule for Eventers and Dressage riders, where I have seen a lot of UL riders/trainers out with young horses at unrecognized jumper shows, dressage shows, events, etc. I don't see it being as big of a deal to the H/J folks, where there's a pretty sharp divide between the upper level competitors who are on the recognized circuit, and the unrecognized level. Though it might actually be a benefit there as it could bring back more C and B shows.
              A Year In the Saddle

              Comment


              • #47
                Other than relying on whistle-blowers, how on earth would the FEI, from up in their ivory tower, ever hope to keep track of EVERY FEI rider at EVERY schooling show in EVERY little corner of EVERY country involved? It's not workable. Seems like if they want to keep the upper-crust from "wasting" their horses and their talents or to avoid ruining attendance at "important" shows they could narrow their sights a little. If while I, during the VERY brief window where I was "a rider registered with the FEI" (which is NOT the same thing as an ULR) went to a few schooling shows--how did that impact the upper crust even remotely?

                The proposed rule could use either a few dozen more paragraphs and stipulations, or it could use the "delete" key.
                Click here before you buy.

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                • #48
                  This is hugely going to effect jumper riders, too... Over in jumperland a frequent discussion is how to get cheaper miles on young horses (with A shows normally being over $1k a weekend), and now the one decent way we had of doing that is being taken away, at least for FEI riders. Not happy.
                  Trying a life outside of FEI tents and hotel rooms.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Riders in the UK aren't happy either
                    http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forum...=575356&page=2
                    I wasn't always a Smurf
                    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
                      Well, what about the one star horse getting some show jumping mileage in at the local jumper show?

                      Or the 4 star horse running through his dressage test at a local, schooling dressage show?
                      I recall one of the riders ... was it Kyle Carter and Madison Park of Canada? -used a schooling show for his WEG horse that tends to get tense in dressage. They made it a local wing-ding with the explicit intent to make it a crazy, noisy atmosphere for them to run through the test. I thought that was intensely creative and appropriate.
                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        As someone responded this morning when I said (on a totally unrelated subject), "It just doesn't make any sense!" - "What's THAT got to do with anything?"

                        Where's the headshaking icon? Or the beating head on wall one?
                        www.ayliprod.com
                        Equine Photography in the Northeast

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                        • #52
                          That's it, I'm storming the castle. Someone hand me a torch.
                          Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                          The Grove at Five Points

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            One can only hope that this will annoy some lawyers with some spare time on their hands, or those that can employ some lawyers, to go after the FEI for their 'bigness' & halt-this silly proposal. Kind of surprising, as the EU is fond of attacking 'bigness,' but I guess they're looking to further their political & financial agenda to another market? The US would be this market, or could be?...this proposal is all about squishing the competition. I do not understand how USEF can possibly think this is good - and since when do US governing bodies like being regulated by others?! Giving funds, to others?! Imagine getting all the local-AA shows accepted by FEI, someone is going to have to foot that bill, as well as the extra money that it costs officials & stewards to be deemed acceptable by this GO that's amazingly out of touch w/reality.

                            To get all sorts of wild thoughts flowing here - if it takes someone besides USEF to figure this out, or a powerful enough person to be the voice of reason, it's not a good thing. Generally speaking, those that can not manage themselves, get managed by others...

                            Could you imagine the tattle-tailing There is prize money, particularly in the jumpers, but we have the HSBC...hey, that person should have been banned from Burghley, their points don't count as they competed in grass-hopper last weekend in KY on a horse whose been OTT for 2 weeks, it's myyy $$$!

                            What individuals came up with this proposal? It'd be interesting to do some digging, I'm sure we could then find a motive...

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Is it time to pull out my annual "BURN THE FEI" rant?

                              Or, I can go with my indie hit, "THE SPINELESS WEASELS AT USEF HAVE NO BUSINESS SENSE."

                              Of course there is the oldie but goodie, "HOW TO DESTROY A SPORT FOR GREED AND STUPIDITY."

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                                Is it time to pull out my annual "BURN THE FEI" rant?
                                Seems so.

                                How do we get a response on this from USEF?
                                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by ACMEeventing View Post
                                  That's it, I'm storming the castle. Someone hand me a torch.
                                  I'll be there with a few pitch forks. Really...they think this is a good idea?!?!? To me...this is the straw breaking the camel's back. FORGET THE DAMN FEI. I don't care about the Olympics that much...and damn, I bet we can run WEG outside of the FEI just fine.
                                  If they think this is a smart move for the FEI....it just shows how friggen out of touch they are. Make stronger rules on qualifying events if they want but this rule is an obnoxious power grab that will have far reaching ramifications.

                                  Our Federation had better scream bloody murder loud and clear and even pull out of the FEI over this if it is not changed.
                                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    The FEI just appears to lack basic communication skills. Apparently this is actually what they meant (from the FB page of the British Horse Driving Trials Association):

                                    "We've been told that the disallowed 'unsanctioned events' with penalties would be full international events in an FEI discipline with at least 15 international "riders" from more than 4 nations but not organised by the FEI - and club and national events are considered affiliated anyway. I think this means it's all no problem, just rather [alarmingly] wide wording in the FEI bulletin."

                                    Huh, you would think that was an important detail to put in the original document!

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by AbbyVD View Post
                                      The FEI just appears to lack basic communication skills. Apparently this is actually what they meant (from the FB page of the British Horse Driving Trials Association):

                                      "We've been told that the disallowed 'unsanctioned events' with penalties would be full international events in an FEI discipline with at least 15 international "riders" from more than 4 nations but not organised by the FEI - and club and national events are considered affiliated anyway. I think this means it's all no problem, just rather [alarmingly] wide wording in the FEI bulletin."

                                      Huh, you would think that was an important detail to put in the original document!

                                      Yeah but what the hell does that mean---and I am a lawyer!!!!? You go to a local schooling show in my area (dressage or a starter event for example) and you absolutely can easily have 15 riders from 4 different nations. What do they consider an "international event"????
                                      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by AbbyVD View Post
                                        Huh, you would think that was an important detail to put in the original document!
                                        That it is not in the original document or no mention seems to be made in any primary publication gives little credence to the interpretation.

                                        hmmmm...the law says you cannot drive over 55 mph on the highway...oh, but someone connected with someone in the Dept of transportation says "what they really mean is that if unless you're driving a big rig fully loaded with glassware and more then three people in the cab, you can speed all you want".

                                        It is a stupid rule. I'd protest to USEA and threaten to drop my membership, but sadly the only way I can qualify for my dream of AEC is to go to recognized events. Since I've gotten into this sport (world) I've come to understand that the FEI is doing a number on Eventing in the US and perhaps equine sports around the world.

                                        Absolute power corrupts absolutely and I feel we are starting to get taste of them flexing that power.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Over on Horse & Hound, it's been reported that BHDTA has clarified on this. (Post 75 on the thread posted from H &H earlier on this thread)

                                          "We've been told that the disallowed 'unsanctioned events' with penalties would be full international events in an FEI discipline with at least 15 international 'riders' from more than 4 nations but not organised by the FEI..."

                                          So it looks like it does not affect schooling shows. Not exactly sure what it does affect....

                                          Of course, we should wait until USEF releases a statement before we get our panties in a wad over this. THEN, if the answer is unsatisfactory, we can start sharpening our swords.
                                          Comedic Eventing on Facebook

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