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No unrecognized or schooling shows for ULR's ...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Big_Grey_hunter View Post
    I could see not allowing an FEI *horse* to compete at unsanctioned shows, if their target is things like the indoor eventing circuit. But riders need to be able to show clients horses and bring babies up the levels. How are they supposed to (affordably) do that if they can't go to unrecognized/unsanctioned events?
    Well, what about the one star horse getting some show jumping mileage in at the local jumper show?

    Or the 4 star horse running through his dressage test at a local, schooling dressage show?

    Hell, outside eventing, I know a Grand Prix dressage horse that ran through HIS test at a local schooling show.

    I encounter both situations and everything in between just about every time I head out to something unsanctioned. FEI horses have needs for unsanctioned things OTHER than stupid glitzy competitions like indoor eventing.

    Is this a RULE or a RULE PROPOSAL?
    Last edited by yellowbritches; Nov. 14, 2012, 06:54 AM. Reason: To add another example.
    Amanda

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    • #22
      Amanda - believe it is a rule proposal. It's making waves in driving as well. Most of the Advanced CDEs are run as FEI events in this country.

      The Federation of European Idiots (thanks Flutie!) strikes again.
      www.amiddle-agedmadwomantakesthereins.blogspot.com

      www.pegasusridge.com

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      • #23
        Originally posted by pegasusmom View Post
        Amanda - believe it is a rule proposal. It's making waves in driving as well. Most of the Advanced CDEs are run as FEI events in this country.

        The Federation of European Idiots (thanks Flutie!) strikes again.
        Well, that makes me feel better! I can imagine it making HUGE waves across the board in just about all the disciplines! I can't imagine this passing.
        Amanda

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        • #24
          I understand that this is "just a proposal", but so was the short format once upon a time (OK, I just called out the bogeyman!) If I have followed this thread well enough, the proposal also covers officials. The number of FEI events in this country can't support enough officials, I'm willing to bet. So either they will quit or what they charge events for their services will have to skyrocket, which will increase the cost if FEI competitions for each competitor. Ah the trickle down effect!

          The FEI appears to be trying to force everyone who wants to play at their level into nationally recognized or FEI events exclusively. Perhaps with the goal of dragging along all of the students/ clients of the top riders as well. But intended or not, cutting all the competitions that don't match these criteria off at the knees. Yep, this will really assist in broadening support for the sport.

          Just for grins and giggles, is there any other international sport that has imposed rules like this?
          They don't call me frugal for nothing.
          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

          Comment


          • #25
            I can see it now...

            Thousands of FEI spies, wearing trench coats and fedoras, hiding in the bushes at schooling shows, ready to spring out and yell "A-HA!"

            Comment


            • #26
              This site
              http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...t-8Nov2012.pdf
              says
              FEI STATUTES AND GENERAL REGULATIONS
              The General Assembly (GA) approved the proposed modifications to the FEI Statutes and General Regulations. The main changes, among other things, include:

              ...

              Series and events not affiliated to the FEI

              The number of series per discipline and per category will be limited in order
              to have a well structured calendar, to avoid date clashes and to manage
              athlete horse power properly to protect the welfare of the horse. As a related
              point, the number of competitions that count for a series will be limited in
              order to guarantee an open market and to avoid closed shops. Athletes and
              officials will no longer be permitted to participate in both sanctioned and
              unsanctioned events. If an athlete, horse or an FEI official participates in a
              non-sanctioned event, such person or horse will be prohibited from
              participating in any sanctioned events, both international and national, for a
              period of six months thereafter. An unsanctioned event is an event that is not
              on the FEI calendar and is not authorised by a National Federation.
              Is the "GA" the final wordi n FEI rulemaking? Or is there another step before a rule becomes final?

              What does "authorised by a National Federation" mean? Could USEF give a blanket authorization to unrecognized competitons in the US?
              Janet

              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

              Comment


              • #27
                If this goes through I would imagine it will be the end of American participation in reining at the FEI level. Those people can earn a lot of money in regular events here.

                And yes, the driving community is not happy about this either.
                Kanoe Godby
                www.dyrkgodby.com
                See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.

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                • #28
                  How are they honestly planning on enforcing this? Half of the schooling shows I've been to in the past don't even post the results online. Are they planning on relying on word of mouth? Or are they going to troll through every single schooling show in the nation every week?

                  For that matter, the entries for schooling shows don't exactly need IDs. What's to stop riders from entering schooling shows as John Smith or Jane Doe? Or the FEI horses from showing under a fake show name, or even their barn name? I suppose they could be reported by other people at the show, but I doubt most people would bother.

                  Just the logistics of enforcing this rule seems like a non-starter to me.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I certainly hope this is addressed somewhere at the convention coming up.
                    ************
                    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Ridiculous.
                      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                      The Grove at Five Points

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I don't know, but it may be that in other countries that pretty much any show has recognition from the national federation, even po-dunk shows. In the USA, we not only have lots of unrecognized dressage and jumper shows and horse trials, but also lots of events that are completely outside USEF guidelines, like for example the whole AQHA (and ApHC and APHA) circuit. I suspect maybe in Germany et al the situation is less amorphous.
                        If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Janet View Post
                          This site
                          http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...t-8Nov2012.pdf
                          says


                          Is the "GA" the final wordi n FEI rulemaking? Or is there another step before a rule becomes final?

                          What does "authorized by a National Federation" mean? Could USEF give a blanket authorization to unrecognized competitions in the US?
                          From my view, it means the governing body "approved modifications", as in its a done deal. As to enforcement, it certainly would seem to be problematic. As suggested a competitor could enter as a jane/john doe, but all it would take is one asshat to report them to really put a crimp in their schedule. That is the problem with limiting laws like this; you can get around them, they are hard/inconsistent to enforce, but allow the authority to apply force when they want to.

                          I would ponder the real why, and the real target. As Janet suggests the USEF could open a blanket to attempt to cover unsanctioned Eventing events, but they can't do it for all equine sports. Even if they did for Eventing, what happens to those shows (like Jumping Branch Farm near Aiken) that are able to run lower cost and attract many more LLRs, because they have more flexibility in how to run the show.

                          Do we hear Europe screaming over this? Or do they have way more sanctioned vs unsanctioned type shows? If I put my tinfoil cap on I'd say this was the FEI targeting the North American market; attempting to get more control or to limit opportunities.

                          The line that got me the most was
                          to manage athlete horse power properly to protect the welfare of the horse.
                          That smacks of the "Think of the children" type justification for knee jerk laws that are not very well thought out. "OMG, Think of the horses", they are getting so abused by going to unrecognized events. Okay fine, then apply the rule to horses only, but if William Fox Pitt wants to run my horse Sterling novice, at Jumping Branch, next year for me (hey I can dream) what does that have to do with anything related to markets or horses.

                          What a major pile of horse manure

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Wow... just... wow.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by JP60 View Post
                              I would ponder the real why, and the real target.
                              Me too. My first thought was that this was probably about some kind of internal FEI/NSO feud, and one faction had put it forward as a strike against the other.

                              In last year's Olympic qualification scramble, there were some very questionable 'qualifiers' held under very questionable circumstances. Basically, these were private qualifiers for rich Middle Easterners. I wondered if this rule was aimed at addressing the bizarre loopholes that allowed people to legally bribe the FEI.

                              My second thought was this was aimed at eliminating competition from big-money non-FEI events. This is an issue in other sports, where athletes will skip a sanctioned event to compete in a non-ISO competition that has a lot of prize money on offer.

                              If the rule passes as written, I'm not sure how anyone will produce and develop competition horses in the future.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Heard over in driving land on other chat boards that this is a done deal.

                                While it's bad for competitors, it's worse for competitions. The rule also applies to judges and officials as well as competitors.

                                So where a unrated show might have had an FEI competitor/judge who worked for them - they won't be able to any more or they risk being sanctioned.

                                I think drive Canada tried to do this in driving some time ago and found everyone just stopped competing rated as they had way more unrated competitions. Wonder how it will go down this time.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by JP60 View Post
                                  The line that got me the most was

                                  to manage athlete horse power properly to protect the welfare of the horse.
                                  That smacks of the "Think of the children" type justification for knee jerk laws that are not very well thought out. "OMG, Think of the horses", they are getting so abused by going to unrecognized events.
                                  I'm pretty certain that was also one of the arguments for the short-format. #Frugalanniestartedit
                                  ------------------------------
                                  Life Goes On

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Now instead of 30 minutes across town, trainer has to travel 4 hours to the recognized show over the weekend. So guess where all his/her clients have to go if they want to show?
                                    This rule does not state that a trainer's clients have to also show at recognized events. They are free to go to unrecognized shows. Eventers don't have to have a trainer with them at all times.
                                    Click here before you buy.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      This hurts. I`m helping get an annual ALL TB Horse Show off the ground ( Dec.2nd BTW at Longwood Farm in Ocala) its for the good of the breed. A show with lower level tests and classes, perfect for the greenies and OTTB`s. The pros that want to support and bring some new horses can`t? Insane.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Before everyone starts freaking out about this, let's wait for the official word from USEF. No reason to have a heart attack over something that hasn't been clarified officially yet. I'd bet EN is on it.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by FlightCheck View Post
                                          I can see it now...

                                          Thousands of FEI spies, wearing trench coats and fedoras, hiding in the bushes at schooling shows, ready to spring out and yell "A-HA!"

                                          That's the thing. Per this modification any FEI competitor can rat on another competitor if they have any sort of proof that they rode at an unsanctioned event which would eliminate the latter rider from FEI for 6 months. THAT should make the whole team-naming process extra fun.

                                          And thanks, Lisamarie8.
                                          They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

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