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How to NOT ride a half coffin.

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by ACMEeventing View Post
    My bigger issue is the lack of leg support over the fence. If you watch fence one, and then 3 and 4 (?), you give a little tap-tap-tap of your heels on approach but the last stride you stop riding. JMHO, but what I see is a horse that needs you to stay supportive right up until the base and ride him OVER the fence.
    .
    This is something that I really need to work on, it's an issue in stadium as well. I am going to go up a hole on my stirrups XC and see how that rides. And I've GOT to soften my hands, lengthen my reins, and work on getting him to not jump over his shoulder so much. He is such an honest boy but if I want to move up at some point these are basic things I have to improve, I can't keep counting on his good nature and brave heart. All most excellent stuff! Man, who needs clinics? Thanks everyone.

    Comment


    • #22
      FWIW, and bear in mind that I have not ridden XC in a few years, she looks like she's starting to run out of gas before you get to the coffin, and looks to be the type that will go flat and a bit downhill if not reminded to sit back.

      I don't necessarily agree about the death grip, but I tended to ride shorter in the rein myself. A longer rein is going to make a bit tougher to really get her up and in front of your leg. I think that *you* could benefit by having the stirrups a hole shorter, but that may make you a bit more on her shoulder, which is only going to encourage her to stay behind your leg.

      Comment


      • #23
        Try the stirrups...but not sure you really are all that long. And sorry for calling him a her......he has such a pretty face

        You look like you are really right on the cusp of putting it all together. Perfect for the level you are at and in the right place to start fine tuning for the next level.
        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

        Comment


        • #24
          Well, you two have been rocking around Training for quite a while, and I've just barely squeaked up to it... so I'm not one to critique you except that I do see what others are saying about her being a bit behind your leg/ not compressed for the coffin.

          HOWEVER, what I want to say even more is that I admire you for posting this and being open to critique. I feel like I have learned a lot from watching this and reading what others have had to say.

          Comment


          • #25
            a technique to help feel more comfortable in shorter stirrups (assuming you wann go a hole or 2 shorter and feel comfortable doing it) is to hike them up 5 holes rom where you are now, and trot around for 5 min like that, in 2 point on the flat. Don't jump a thing. Then drop them back down to 1 hole shorter than what you had in the video. Then ride like that for a little, see how it feels. then if comfy jump with the stirrups a hole shorter than your video.

            The difference you feel going from 5 holes shorter than normal to 1 hole shorter than normal makes you more comfy with the shorter stirrups.

            I had an inst. that would have us warm up before jump lessons for 5 min with stirrups 5 holes shorter than our usual jump length.... was good exercise for strengthening the quads. we'd post the short side and 2 point the long side of the arena like that.

            as an aside I jumped a trakaner at t kinda like you did the coffin.

            Comment


            • #26
              Old codger here who used to ride cross country and worked with many eventers.

              First, I would not raise your stirrups. I looked at some of your fences in slow motion and you can get ahead of your horse. Raising your stirrups will make this easier for you. If anything, get stronger and push your foot a little forward to stay with.

              Not in slo mo you guys look awesome! The fence before both you and the gelding lost your rythym and came out of the zone you had going. You didn't have enough time to set up the half coffin.

              It looks like you are wearing spurs and I know a lot of folks do. How does he ride w/o them? When you use them you seem to get a good go but then when you use your leg for stability you get an uneven response that is interfering.

              Maybe do some stretches and balance work off the horse so that your legs are just a bit more independent. Lovely position but not as much control as I'd like if you were my student.

              No charge.
              “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
              ? Albert Einstein

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              • #27
                wow, excellent learning opportunity for us all! Thanks for posting this!
                Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it; Boldness has genius, magic, and power in it ~ Goethe

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by jumpsnake View Post
                  HOWEVER, what I want to say even more is that I admire you for posting this and being open to critique. I feel like I have learned a lot from watching this and reading what others have had to say.
                  +1

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    It was a beautiful video! I was shocked when you made the one mistake because it was so out of sync with the rest of your work. You have a lovely horse, and you are a lovely pair!
                    I have a Fjord! Life With Oden

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                    • #30
                      I disagree that raising your stirrup will make you more likely to get ahead. I think just the opposite, putting a better angle in your leg will give you a stronger leg position, and allow your upper body to be more stable. Atleast 2 holes I think.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by sandycrosseventing View Post
                        I disagree that raising your stirrup will make you more likely to get ahead. I think just the opposite, putting a better angle in your leg will give you a stronger leg position, and allow your upper body to be more stable. Atleast 2 holes I think.
                        Same here. When your stirrups are too long it makes your leg more likely to swing back which pivots your upper body forward. Shortening your stirrup will keep your leg under you better which should help keep you more upright and allow you to keep Jaycee under himself more.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Glad some other people commented on your horse's jumping style, I didn't want to be the only one with unsolicited comments. I would be doing lots of grids with this guy.

                          He's a brave, honest jumper, but behind your leg for the majority of the course. Also pretty unbalanced, even between fences - shows in the canter getting lateral and flat. The canter coming into the 1/2 coffin was flat and lacking impulsion; combine that with being somewhat behind the leg and you get a nasty 'woopsie' moment. You need to balance for the ditch and ride forward to the 'out' obstacle. I would be doing lots of transitions within the gate with this horse and consider putting changes on him when he gets more balanced. You've got straight down pat - that's a good start to getting a more quality canter.

                          To get really specific, you slowed the canter down for the ditch without riding him up - thus, you just fizzled out whatever impulsion and balance he had. It decreased with every stride and by the time you got to the 'out,' you didn't have your leg on and your horse had no gas left.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Too long a stirrup can absolutely make you throw your body forward.....and too short can make you more insecure and less with your horse.

                            Going shorter with the stirrup isn't always a great fix...sometimes yes.

                            But I'm not sure the OP is really riding with too long. I didn't overly analyze it but thought there was a close to 90 degree angle when he was sitting in the saddle...and an ok angle when out of the saddle. It is really hard to judge....But they didn't seem obnoxiously too long if they are long at all.


                            But like a lot of riders, he needs a bit more flexibility in the joints (including his hip). And to continue to work on strengthing his core and position (Keep doing those squats ). It isn't a bad position at all but like all of us...we can always get better. My concern would be if he went too short...he will end up more "on top" of his horse and less secure and with him.
                            Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Nov. 9, 2012, 01:30 PM.
                            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by JP60 View Post
                              This may seem esoteric, but after watching the sequence a few times, I would say you checked out mentally between the ditch and the jump. I agree with fritt that you had her/him behind you, but the the horse never really made an attempt to set up for the jump until that half stride before. Given how smooth every other jump before went, I could see where the shuffle/hesitation by JayCee may have thrown you off your own rhythm.

                              .


                              I agree with this statement, except that I don't think that riderboy checked out, I think Jaycee checked out. After the big "Good BOY" neck pats and scratches, the horse drifts off to the left and slows his stride down a bit. You can see it in his ears that the course is done and he looks off to the left.

                              Then you bring him back to the right a bit and head straight for the ditch which he gets over ( and it looks like Jaycee is about to exit stage left here too, because he thinks he is done), but does not have the forward momentum to get over the next element because you are riding the course still ever so slightly ahead of him. The 3 millisecond breakdown between the "good boy" and the ditch did you in on the yellow element.


                              Otherwise great ride, I enjoyed watching it. You and Jaycee get along like a house on fire!
                              Last edited by MunchingonHay; Nov. 9, 2012, 11:47 AM. Reason: spelling
                              www.facebook.com/doggonegoodgoodies
                              http://doggonebakedgoods.com/

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by subk View Post
                                I talked just last weekend with Wofford at a clinic about a horse that could use a little improvement rotating and opening his shoulder. His Rx was gymnastics with low wide oxers in them. (<12" high and 4' wide with a rail placed diagonally across the top so the horse doesn't step in it.) He used and exercise with the 3' group that had a low wide oxer, one stride, to a low 2' bounce. The oxer lengthens the horse the bounces shorten the horse--then you jump through either direction--lengthen to shorten then shorten to lengthen.
                                Great idea. I tend to use a triple bar, but I've done similar compression/extension gymnastics to help teach my young students to sit up and stay with the horse regardless of the jump. I'm curious as to the striding he used? Can you comment on the distances between jumps? I like a compressed fit going into the spread to prevent the horse/rider from flattening out, but I'd love to know what distances Wofford was using if you know??

                                OP - colour me stupid, but I likely would have ridden B element from a trot considering the underpace/sucking back the horse was exhibiting after the ditch. Your horse looks more then able to handle the size from a trot, and my LL mantra is "if in doubt, trot". What a nice trooper though, he just kept trucking for you! Great to see.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  So much good insight here already. I do think playing with the stirrup length is worth a try -- I often find I cannot tell until I see the rider with the new length whether that is the issue or not...

                                  One thing no one else has mentioned is that your stirrup appears very far "home" and really inhibits your ability to flex your heel and use that as a "base." You have long legs and it may feel "secure" because you wrap your leg around your horse, but without that deep heel I think you end up a little too close to the saddle in your gallop (which is tiring for the horse, and gives you less of an easy way to change his shape in the prep phase), and a little bit at the mercy of your upper body when things go wrong.
                                  Something else just to play with perhaps on your gallops at home.

                                  I have to say I think your horse does want to jump over his shoulder a lot -- slipping the reins as Reed suggests might really help him learn to use his neck and jump "out in front" of himself. This goes along with more consistently in front of your leg (and body) -- encouraging him to take off a little bit more up through that shoulder.

                                  Gymnastics targeted at changing that pattern might be very useful this winter....
                                  The big man -- my lost prince

                                  The little brother, now my main man

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I agree with these guys, particularly Reed (as usual). Yes put your stirrups up but also, get the iron out onto the ball of your foot. Your ankle is locked up bc your foot is jammed home. Also, the reins-please let them go! She's in a running martingale (I never saw a reason for it) She's quiet in her head and neck so let her have some space. She also seems to need the push, not the pull. I'd have given her a little whack after the first fence as it was pretty sticky. Although she's moving along over the course she is a little backwards. Soften the hand and add the leg. Get out of the saddle, too. My best XC trips were when my thumb had been hacked off (by a friend with pruning shears, by mistake!) and I had to ride in a cast/vetwrap affair. I couldn't hold my reins with my right hand so I pretty much sailed around on the buckle. Intermediate. My horse was thrilled, all I could do was steer and use my body to say come back or go. And YES, you 2 look like a great duo. Have fun!!
                                    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Well, I have to say I am quite surprised and pleased with the response. Lots of opinions here that I have great respect for, and lots of great "eyes." I think having a full XC run really gives a true picture of what I'm doing and how it affects Jaycee, and not just at the half coffin. Thanks again!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        You two make a great pair, loads of trust between you and your horse seems to really enjoy the "job". Sooooooo now it is time to get rid of the rough edges.



                                        As others have noted your horse gallops 'flat' as in more on the forehand. Before the water and the half coffin one usually asks for a 'coffin canter', where the horse is stepping under (carrying) more, the stride shortens and the front end becomes lighter. From this canter the horse usually lands more softly, better for the front legs.
                                        Use this time of year to work on shortening and lengthening within all gaits to improve the ability to step under with the hind and carry more.
                                        One or more rails on the ground is a wonderful exercise for both of you to learn how to adjust approach and striding without pounding over fences. Play with different stirrup lengths. You have a good overall position that will be improved by focused work - with an overly short stirrup or no stirrups. Denny Emerson has advocated spending part of your ride with jockey length stirrups to improve strength, flexibility, endurance, the ability to barf and scream in pain.

                                        Have your instructor watch the video and make a plan for next year. Watch videos of ULR riders and their horses. I was really impressed with how the Brits went at the Olympics this year. Compare how their horses gallop to how yours goes now. You will see their horses are pushing as well as carrying with their hindquarters and so are lighter on the forehand. You will see they are quicker over the fences, appropriate basqule (sp) and away from the fences. Also note how short they ride and where they balance is located. You know you have started riding correctly when you become acquianted with back, shoulder, leg and stomach muscles that you only knew briefly.

                                        Good Luck for next year!!!
                                        "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                                        Courtesy my cousin Tim

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Ok, so the half coffin was a bit rough, but what I liked was how you kept on going like nothing had happened. You didn't let it phase you. I hope I can do the same when I get my horse to that level.

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