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FEI Microchip requirement

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    I've been in favor of chipping for at least the past ten years. It is definite horse ID (unless some dishonest person decided to dig the chip out, which has been raised against chips) and it allows for accurate record keeping. I was just under the impression that the horse ID information was programmed on the chip before it was implanted which would be even more definite.

    But any chipping is better than none. The US needs to move forward with the rest of the world.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

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    • #22
      So does this mean that both national and international passports require the microchip?

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      • Original Poster

        #23
        Nope. It's an FEI requirement only. Perhaps someday the USEF will get around to requiring for all US horses.
        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
        Thread killer Extraordinaire

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        • #24
          Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
          That means that the actual horse information is stored in a hackable database somewhere that is subject to editing.

          I had hoped that the chip be programmed somehow with the horse information before it was implanted. That way it would not subject to computer glitches and editing.
          If you could program the chips, you could hack (edit) them.
          "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

          ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

          Comment


          • #25
            Lordhelpus, you have much to offer on the eventing forum, so I'm not sure why your tone is so often negative.

            I have a valid reason for not liking this. It is going to cost me a day off work + $250 in fuel to go to a vet who can implant a chip. So now my passport is just that much more expensive. And that is just to enter a CIC*. Since passports and their rigamarole generally take time, I try to do this in the early spring before the season has really started. So if that horse doesn't make it to an FEI event for whatever reason, it's an additional $450 I didn't need to spend.

            Since chips aren't required for non-FEI horses, it does not help that much with general identification, disease control, etc. In fact, after one of the last FEI events I attended, multiple horses came off our trailer with the flu.
            Blugal

            You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Blugal View Post
              I have a valid reason for not liking this. It is going to cost me a day off work + $250 in fuel to go to a vet who can implant a chip. So now my passport is just that much more expensive. And that is just to enter a CIC*. Since passports and their rigamarole generally take time, I try to do this in the early spring before the season has really started. So if that horse doesn't make it to an FEI event for whatever reason, it's an additional $450 I didn't need to spend.
              Any vet can implant a microchip. My first youngsters were chipped in 2000. Noone here knew how to do it and the chips were not "ready to inject" at the time. There was a very long wait for the "gun" used to implant them. My vet did some reading and figured out a way to do and charged me $20 per horse. He even surgically prepared the site - which he said was overkill, but he wanted to be extra safe his first time with a kludgy delivery system. My boys are 12 now and never had a second's issue with them. I'm sure your regular vet can figure it out. They are much more ready to go these days! I believe some breeders do this themselves.

              Since chips aren't required for non-FEI horses, it does not help that much with general identification, disease control, etc. In fact, after one of the last FEI events I attended, multiple horses came off our trailer with the flu.
              No, it doesn't. Not unless it is a standard in the country you are in and compliance is high. But it does help track nasty diseases and help track epidemics. But - as I said earlier - it helps very much with drug testing and enforcement. IMHO - that is worth its weight in gold.

              I am sorry this is a PITA for you. But I will say that progress is never painless. I do hope you can find a less expensive way to get your chips done!

              SCFarm
              The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

              www.southern-cross-farm.com

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              • #27
                My plain bay mare has a WB brand on her hip but I also had her chipped because (surprise surprise) she looks a lot like her siblings from the same farm, and there must be countless others out there that could also be mistaken for her if someone didn't know her personally.

                I find it interesting that we're still branding foals in her registry here in the US, but if she were born in Belgium, she would not be branded. A brand really doesn't positively identify anything. Sure, it's a highly visible mark, but they have people over on the breeding forums a few times a month asking for help to identify horses with nothing but an approximation of an age, color, markings and a breed registry brand. Usually it's a dead end. I'd LOVE to see us go to microchips on all horses with the frequency of "lost" identities in the US.

                I wonder if it would cause a huge stir over in H/J land though if it started happening on a national level as well. It's easy to rename a horse and bring it out as green over and over again under the current system. All that would be ruined if horses were scanned for their microchips at USEF shows.
                The rebel in the grey shirt

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by JWB View Post
                  I'd LOVE to see us go to microchips on all horses with the frequency of "lost" identities in the US.

                  I wonder if it would cause a huge stir over in H/J land though if it started happening on a national level as well. It's easy to rename a horse and bring it out as green over and over again under the current system. All that would be ruined if horses were scanned for their microchips at USEF shows.
                  Not sure why you single out H/J land.
                  Today I was looking up some USEF recordings on Eventers and found several horses that had been sold but instead of doing a transfer the owner just did a new recording. So these horses now have two USEF numbers with part of their performance record under each USEF number. Of course that happens in H/J just as it does in every discipline.

                  There are several issues that make chip checking impractical and expensive.

                  1) The check in line to get a number ( at least at a H/J show) can be very long. To implement this the horse would need to be 'checked in' before the back number can be obtained. Horses arrive at odd times, need for more staff in the stable manager office.
                  2) Equipment. Not so expensive anymore but each show or facility would need the equipment.
                  3) Different types of chips. May require mulltiple scanners.
                  4) Data is likely just a number. That number would have to be matched against a database. USEF's database would need to be modified to store the chip numbers with the recording data on USEF's files. More expense.
                  5) The show or the software they use to process entries would need an online feature as part of the verification of USEF data at receipt of entry or at show checkin.

                  All of the above equals expense. And many people on these boards complain about the costs of recording horses.
                  And in some cases USEF recording is not required of eventing competitors. So who holds the data for the non USEF recorded horses or do they get a free pass for no chips?
                  How about those horses that compete on a Horse ID instead of recording ( annual or lifetime)?

                  It is unlikely that USEF can require microchips. USDA tried to implement a chip based ID system to record equine movemement and they were unable to enforce it. USEF's position or status is not the same as the European Equestrian Organizations. They are more quasi government in nature.

                  Sure, if you need it for FEI level competition then you have to comply. But that's a small percent of the competition universe and would never impact Hunters because it is not an FEI discipline.

                  It would not be a bad thing if there was positive ID for every horse at a competition but be careful what you wish for. Of course if you don't mind paying more to USEF on a annual or per show basis plus increased show or office fees then by all means go for it.

                  And I'm sure it would be a short time before chip data could be altered either by removal or electronic process.
                  Fan of Sea Accounts

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    PTF, you forget or have ignored that a rather large, perhaps majority percentage of non-pony hunters who show at USEF shows are imported European WBs. Those horses either already do or will come to NA with microchips implanted because they are now required by all EU countries. So the horses already have both a UELN and chip number in some database in their home countries. It wouldn't take much effort to transfer the "passport" to the US which would include all information that is attached to that chip number. You're not suggesting that the hunter world is so corrupt that the people who import and show hunters in NA would dig the chips out?

                    Once the chip in, it's one number that goes with the horse, like a JC tattoo. We know that malefactors have done things with JC tattoos but it's very rare and doesn't support the proposition that tattoos are worthless and should be done away with. Tattoos are JC's way of preventing ringers; and ringers are what one supposes is what is happening in hunterland.

                    All the USEF would have do is have a reliable database and have the horses scanned before they enter the ring for the first time at a show. If the FEI can have done it worldwide at their competitions, it's not impossible for the USEF.
                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                    Thread killer Extraordinaire

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      PTF, you forget or have ignored that a rather large, perhaps majority percentage of non-pony hunters who show at USEF shows are imported European WBs. Those horses either already do or will come to NA with microchips implanted because they are now required by all EU countries. So the horses already have both a UELN and chip number in some database in their home countries. It wouldn't take much effort to transfer the "passport" to the US which would include all information that is attached to that chip number. You're not suggesting that the hunter world is so corrupt that the people who import and show hunters in NA would dig the chips out?

                      Once the chip in, it's one number that goes with the horse, like a JC tattoo. We know that malefactors have done things with JC tattoos but it's very rare and doesn't support the proposition that tattoos are worthless and should be done away with. Tattoos are JC's way of preventing ringers; and ringers are what one supposes is what is happening in hunterland.

                      All the USEF would have do is have a reliable database and have the horses scanned before they enter the ring for the first time at a show. If the FEI can have done it worldwide at their competitions, it's not impossible for the USEF.
                      And your point is?

                      And because I process show data every day I'm very much aware of where the upper level hunter and jumpers originate.
                      Perhaps more so than you.

                      The USEF 'might' have a reliable database but where do they link to to get the data? Chip # xxx xxx xxx xxx without a corresponding record with name, description etc is useless.
                      And there may be variations within registries as to what the chip number consists of and where the data is located ( what database in what country and how to gain access )

                      And you still are ignoring the expense and time issues. do you really think that any competition has the time and staff to be scanning horses as they enter the ring? And again, what would the scan get matched to?

                      There are many one day H/J shows, particularly in Zone II which is the largest USEF H/J Zone. These shows do not have the funds to invest in this technology.

                      Perhaps if a simple method using chips could be developed that quickly ID'd a horse it might be useful for drug tests.
                      Or perhaps at only certain USEF levels ( which is exactly what's being implemented for FEI horses).
                      Otherwise it's a time and expense nightmare for owners, competitions, software developers and the USEF.

                      I'm not suggesting thst the Hunter world is so correupt they'd dig out the chips, I'm saying that irregularities in regstration are not limited to the H/J world. You did read my post, didn't you?
                      Fan of Sea Accounts

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by PINE TREE FARM SC View Post
                        And you still are ignoring the expense and time issues. do you really think that any competition has the time and staff to be scanning horses as they enter the ring? And again, what would the scan get matched to?
                        It's really not a very big deal. Here in Ireland all foals now have to be chipped at the same time they are registered. This Chip number is also entered into their passport and everything stored on a central database. This database now also links the governing bodies for eventing and showjumping in ireland as well as FEI results.
                        At the bigger shows where horses are stabled overnight such as Dublin Horse Show, the horses go through a vet check on the way in and scanned to ensure passport and chip match. In classes such as our very popular Future Event Horse league, your horse is scanned as you are waiting in line to go in and jump - no big deal.
                        It's a terrific way of ensuring transparency and accountability as well as pretty fail save way of keeping accurate data on the horse.

                        Here is how it works in Ireland - just for comparison:
                        http://www.horsesportireland.ie/bree...orse_Studbook_

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I see no problem with chip requirements! All my horses have been microchipped as soon as the bill of sale was in my hand. I've always owed distinctly colored horses(ie pintos), but my current is a plain bay. Regardless of their coloring, having them chipped gives me a greater sense of security that(heaven forbid) were they to go missing for some reason, I would have a way of proving that they were mine.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Are Jockey Club chip numbers usable? Many OTTBs are already "chipped"

                            how about
                            http://pettravelstore.com/products/P...FW1yQgodGmMAgA

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by JWB View Post

                              I find it interesting that we're still branding foals in her registry here in the US, but if she were born in Belgium, she would not be branded. A brand really doesn't positively identify anything. Sure, it's a highly visible mark, but they have people over on the breeding forums a few times a month asking for help to identify horses with nothing but an approximation of an age, color, markings and a breed registry brand. Usually it's a dead end. I'd LOVE to see us go to microchips on all horses with the frequency of "lost" identities in the US.
                              There was an article about the powerful push in Europe to move away from branding toward microchipping for breed registration in this month's PH (in the sliver of content that's left between the front and back cover and ads) for the reasons you noted above. Interesting reading for a person who hadn't heard anything about the trend, but finds it sensible (like myself).
                              "With mirth and laughter, let old wrinkles come" (Shakespeare).

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