• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Concussion Reduction Technology

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Concussion Reduction Technology

    I am an avid football fan and read an article in ESPN about this new material that some players are using in their helmets to reduce the chances of suffering a concussion:
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/85...it-concussions

    Obviously this article is very anecdotal, but I thought it was interesting as I'd never heard of this material before. I wonder if this could make waves in the equestrian world? It'd be nice to see some research from a company such as GPA or Charles Owen using this material. Or has this already been researched and I've just never heard of it before? Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

  • #2
    From what it looks like, i bet you could add it to your current helmet. dont take my word for it though.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sadly, it's probably just one more case of marketing trumping scientific evidence. The whole shebang is remarkably similar to the air vest debate in eventing.

      http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...d-concussions/

      But even as a total layperson with only a basic understanding of concussion and physics, this product's marketing lines seem questionable. Concussive forces happen when your brain hits the side of your skull. How could exterior padding do anything to minimize that internal impact? You'd need to have Kevlar in your skull cavity between your brain and your skull.

      Whether the Kevlar would offer more protection to the outside of your head, I can't say. If we're lucky, the resident experts like RAyers will chime in.
      Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, there is plenty of evidence that shock absorbing materials outside your head can reduce the forces that cause brain injury - that's what all the padding in your helmet is for.

        I must say that I haven't heard of this one yet. Could be a good thing, but I wouldn't go using it yet. Adding weight to your head significantly adds to the forces your brain sees in a fall, plus adding things to a helmet that isn't designed to accommodate them can interfere with their normal function. One of my partners is a consulting neurosurgeon for the NFL though so I will have to see what he has heard about this particular product as I have to plead ignorance.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey guys, I've hesitated posting anything about this, but since Oct.1, I've been very thankful for the research the NFL is doing on brain injury.

          Oct.1, I took one of my horses for a walk on our property. I remember walking about 75 feet, and then nothing for 30 hours. Apparently I was found on the ground, non-responsive with a dislocated and broken hip. My Charles Owen hard hat has a huge dent on one side, and when I got home from the hospital, I called the company to thank them for saving my life. BUT, I'm also thankful that the NFL and many researchers have brought attention to brain injury. I know that not so many years ago, my post-concussion symptoms would have been brushed off or ignored. Instead, the medical team is actually taking them more seriously than my hip, although they're being pretty careful about that, too.

          So, whatever the marketing, I'm thrilled more research is being done. Any additional information is good, IMHO.
          They don't call me frugal for nothing.
          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

          Comment


          • #6
            FA, I remember thinking for one of my "big" concussions that "were it not for my 6 broken ribs, I would surely be getting back in the tack." My whole life I have been one of the ones who always gets right back on but that particular day, my ribs hurt so much I physically couldn't do it. Therefore saving myself a probable further head injury.......Glad you are well enough to be posting today. Now go have a nap.
            Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

            Comment


            • #7
              Pol, you've always been one of my heroes for your indomitability. Good to know that with increased wisdom (and maybe a few broken ribs) you will sit down and take the time to heal. As a result, you're even higher in my estimation.

              Off to nap.
              They don't call me frugal for nothing.
              Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting product.

                Of course, it adds bulk so it would likely be difficult to add to a helmet that already fits.
                Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Scientific evidence for CRT

                  I've had too many concussions myself so had looked into this technology a while back. Why I didn't order the exo pads at the time I don't know but after reading more about it, I will order them and add them to my helmet.

                  Here are two links to experimental evidence as to the effectiveness of the CRT or EXO pads. Unfortunately, they weren't tested in riding helmets.

                  http://www.multivu.com/mnr/58535-une...ion-by-unequal

                  http://www.exoarmor.com/pads

                  Mary in Western NY
                  http://www.bpequine.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Interesting, the press release includes the answer to one of my questions:

                    Unequal honors any helmet warranty to its full extent when CRT is in place.
                    I wondered whether using it would void your helmet's warranty.
                    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      one of the main probs with current helmet performance is that oblique blows to the helmet don't fare well and not many riders who fall put their helmet in a perfect 90 degree angle to the ground. perhaps this is where extra padding could come in, but then, fitting a helmet with unequal padding doesn't seem like it would work very well either.

                      i applaud the current, past, and deceased players who are championing TBI (traumatic brain injury) research. still, for all those hard ass riders who fall off and have been told from day 1 of riding to "get back on" THAT's where TBIs occur that go unnoticed unless a trained medical professional is there, does an eval--- i can't tell you how many riders (including myself) have gotten back on with a TBI and ridden because they're "fine."

                      don't even get me started on TBIs without helmets! i've treated those pts, been that patient and do patient counseling about helmets all the time. we still have a looooonnnnngggg way to go tho friends. how many trainers know the signs/symptoms of a TBI? how many riders know what to do if they see someone hit their head? how many people wear their helmets the minute they enter the barn in case something happens on the ground? we don't do brain transplants yet- you have ONE brain, ONE CNS, that's it!
                      And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "....how many people wear their helmets the minute they enter the barn in case something happens on the ground?..." LaChasse, that is how the big head whack/ribs breaking episode, of which I spoke above^^ , occurred. I ONLY had my helmet on bc it was a cold December day. I had just finished my ride, was untacking and simply hadn't gotten around to taking off my helmet. If I HAD taken it off already, I am quite sure I would not be sitting here typing. ;-/
                        Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          @ riverbend- yep. I hear you. Thank god you were cold I guess It's amazing what our lovely beasts do & that we keep coming back....albeit hopefully wiser, with a new helmet.

                          Ive said this before but One of my TBIs happened when I wasn't wearing a helmet (I was 19 and dumb). at 25, started wearing a unilateral hearing aid and have to use an electronic stethoscope b/c Ive lost 60%+ hearing in that ear (after surgery too) b/c of my crash. Now, when I have a rider who confesses they don't wear a helmet, or a kid who skateboards/bike/dirtbike/4-wheeler sans helmet, I pop out my hearing aid and say, THIS is what happens and I'm lucky. You could be drooling & in diapers right now. (totally pull the b-card, I know).

                          *until u truly get hurt, u have no idea. Happy u are ok & btw, rib fracture are rotten.
                          And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            fwiw, one of my professors (20+ year neurosurgeon in Chicago and Atlanta) noted that a lot of concussions seem to be worse with the new helmet technology. Due to Diffuse Axonal Injury, instead of the injury being localized to a small area it's spread out to a larger area which can sometimes be worse. Just to say that even though we think the technology is better, it's not always the case. Like the air vests, for instance. Solving one problem can create another. Football will never be concussion-proof, just like riding horses won't. Not sure what the answer is though.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hmmm... Thats interesting. Did s/he publish any research? The theory seems legit.
                              And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by AUeventer View Post
                                fwiw, one of my professors (20+ year neurosurgeon in Chicago and Atlanta) noted that a lot of concussions seem to be worse with the new helmet technology. Due to Diffuse Axonal Injury, instead of the injury being localized to a small area it's spread out to a larger area which can sometimes be worse. Just to say that even though we think the technology is better, it's not always the case. Like the air vests, for instance. Solving one problem can create another. Football will never be concussion-proof, just like riding horses won't. Not sure what the answer is though.
                                I think I still prefer to land on my head with it inside a helmet than without. Good grief, if we can't trust our helmets, who CAN we trust?!!
                                Last edited by RiverBendPol; Oct. 19, 2012, 03:38 PM.
                                Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  By the way, the new Chas Owen 4* (which I haven't yet seen) is the only hat (so far) that is approved by all three standards - ASTM, BSI, and SNELL - the latter of which measures the "oblique blows to the helmet don't fare well" (sic) that has La Chasse concerned. Certainly as technology changes, more hats will earn all three approvals.
                                  co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    That's gtk. I emailed a researcher for some helmet company in Europe maybe about a year ago (not CO) who was working on the oblique issue too. Of course I can't remember who or what the name was, but it was a company I hadn't heard of before- Danish maybe? My poor brain-
                                    And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Gatehouse HS1 Jockey Skull

                                      Originally posted by La Chasse View Post
                                      That's gtk. I emailed a researcher for some helmet company in Europe maybe about a year ago (not CO) who was working on the oblique issue too. Of course I can't remember who or what the name was, but it was a company I hadn't heard of before- Danish maybe? My poor brain-
                                      You might be thinking of this helmet, HS1

                                      "The best selling riding helmet in the world that passes both Snell E2001 and the BSI kitemark. Snell E2001 is the highest manufactured equestrian helmet standard in the world and includes a unique test that simulates a rider falling into a fence rail, or having a secondary hit from a horse's hoof"

                                      I've said this before, and I'll say it again - I don't see why the USEA/USEF thinks that the American safety standard is better than the European standard of testing for helmets. I go with what fits and covers my head the best and if it's not ASTM/SEI but rather PAS and EN approved I don't care.

                                      Mary in Western NY
                                      http://www.bpequine.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I will honestly admit that I haven't read the scientific evidence presented above, HOWEVER, as a parent of a competitive hockey player (I'm Canadian after all, eh?) the science here indicates that a well fitted mouthpiece is just as important in brain injury prevention as a good helmet. Just putting it out there. My son played competitive hockey from age 7 to 16 and wore a fitted mouthpiece 100% of the time. Helmet was replaced after every severe helmet/ice impact.

                                        As a 50 year old re-rider doing mostly trial riding, what piece of safety equipment am I looking at? Impact vest 100% - mouthpiece 0%. If my child was taking up eventing - as an educated "hockey Mom" - kid would be at the dentist for a heat moulded mouthpiece and would never jump without it.
                                        At its finest, rider and horse are joined not by tack, but by trust. Each is totally reliant upon the other. Each is the selfless guardian of the other's very well-being.
                                        (Author Unknown)

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X