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  • bounces

    Did [upper level] xcountry courses always have bounces? As an occassional observer 20 plus years ago I just didnt remember seeing them but maybe because they did not look scary to me when I was younger!

    Have bounces changed any?
    TIA

  • #2
    I wasn't around 20 years ago, but I'm pretty sure bounces have always been a staple on upper level eventing courses. If anything has changed, they have become safer with lower heights and frangible pins.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes. You always used to find them on course at prelim and up. I would say you actually used to find them more often.
      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

      Comment


      • #4
        There used to be far MORE bounces. I actually just had this conversation with someone who's been in the sport probably longer than I've been alive (she'd kill me for saying that....). There are far fewer now than when even I started, 12 years ago.

        When I first moved up to prelim in 2005, I had a bounce (offset and number separately so you could choose to circle) on probably half the courses I walked. I didn't run prelim for a few years, but I remember walking an intermediate course probably in 08 with a younger friend who had just moved up to that level. There was a bounce on that course...it was her first one on xc, EVER (she did a couple of solid, full years at prelim).

        I did a whole season at prelim in 2010 with Vernon...never saw one, not even at the three day. Have yet to see one this year with Toby.
        Amanda

        Comment


        • #5
          Agree they are less common today, maybe because we have other, new types of technical fences to incorporate too.
          The bounce into the water was a much more common question 10-15 years ago, and training used to even have occasional bounce banks which I haven't seen in years.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've seen three this year in my first full year back at prelim since about 2008. Back then, I'd only done one, an offset like YB described (was one at VA HT by chance?).

            This year, I did a bounce bank up at MCTA in the spring and a bounce bank up at Morven this past weekend. I also did a normal bounce at Marlborough two weeks ago, although I know that it's been on their course for ages.
            Lindsay

            Check out my blog at http://lindsayberreth.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Someone can correct me if I am wrong but didn't Rubicon have a bounce bank on the peninsula in the water complex a couple of years ago.

              I know double bounces are pretty much in the ring every time I go for a lesson and I always have a bounce/something combination set up at home.
              A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

              Comment


              • #8
                There was a bounce bank to a log on Prelim at the October MD HT last fall and as someone else said there was one at Marlborough last month (two brush fences)-- so 2 of the 6 Prelims I've done.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I guess I don't consider bounce banks the same as a bounce.

                  I have done plenty of bounce banks...Vernon and I WORE one at Millbrook. The up bank was pretty small, he set his eyes on the top rail of the second element, and we just wore the bank. Thank god for fifth legs (and brave horses....he was completely unphased).
                  Amanda

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
                    I guess I don't consider bounce banks the same as a bounce.

                    Yeah...I was thinking the straight bounce. They used to often set them after a long gallop or after a long down hill....really testing your ability to get your horse back. On my super super scopy horse, was always afraid he would jump them like an oxer...I've had more than one horse try!
                    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      " On my super super scopy horse, was always afraid he would jump them like an oxer...I've had more than one horse try"

                      OMG thtat is my old age fear-- I now have babies horse that land too far out (and they dont jump flat) --how to train babies? Practice, practice practice?
                      (I should clarify--by babies I mean "babies" to eventing, but mature enough horses.)
                      Last edited by omare; Oct. 11, 2012, 12:04 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by omare View Post
                        " On my super super scopy horse, was always afraid he would jump them like an oxer...I've had more than one horse try"

                        OMG thtat is my old age fear-- I now have babies horse that land too far out (and they dont jump flat) --how to train babies? Practice, practice practice?
                        (I should clarify--by babies I mean "babies" to eventing, but mature enough horses.)


                        Lots of practice in the ring and out in the jump field-- not just "jumping a bounce" but approaching them from all sorts of ways-- off a turn, off a long gallop, uphill, downhill, as part of a combination, etc. The biggest difference between a bounce and a big ol' open oxer is your approach canter-- a bounce is always approached with a short, bouncy, active coffin canter... not a big-strided gallop. Dropping into a lower gear should be Clue #1 for the horse to expect something tricky and be on his feet. This goes for bounces, coffins, bounce banks, all sorts of things. Many times, the two elements of the bounce will be noticeably different-- perhaps a slightly different color, or the second one slightly higher, so that the horse can differentiate between the two obstacles.

                        To the original topic: I agree with the consensus, bounces were a lot more common in yesteryear than in the last 10 years or so. Out of dozens of Prelims and Intermediate events I've done since 2002, I would say perhaps one out of six or seven had a true bounce (not bank). My first one was at Flying Cross, which had a beautiful set up for your first ever bounce: it was off a fairly long gallop, but placed after a twisting path through the trees-- it forced your horse to be on his feet, paying attention, and balanced. The last dozen strides or so were flat, straight and more open (though still on a path) so all you had to do was come out of the woods and ride forward. It was fun!
                        “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                        ? Albert Einstein

                        ~AJ~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I loved the log bounce at the Kentucky Horse Park that I jumped regularly in 2001 and 2002 that was too big logs coming off a nice turn.

                          The first preliminary I ever attempted had a coop to coop bounce on it (2000), which I didn't love.

                          Not a single bounce when I did preliminary in Florida during the 2008 winter.

                          I like bounces and do school them in the stadium on fairly green horses.
                          OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by omare View Post
                            " On my super super scopy horse, was always afraid he would jump them like an oxer...I've had more than one horse try"

                            OMG thtat is my old age fear-- I now have babies horse that land too far out (and they dont jump flat) --how to train babies? Practice, practice practice?
                            (I should clarify--by babies I mean "babies" to eventing, but mature enough horses.)
                            I've had two super scopy horses clear bounces set at 3'6". And my broodmare tried it once in the ring and almost made it...took out the second fence by touching it with her hind toes. Luckily...all three were smart enough to never do it again. It is all about getting the right canter, not gunning at them (or riding backwards) and having them understand the question. We do bounces in the ring all the time with young horses.

                            My one horse who does land far out after the fences LIVED with poles on the ground behind every fence for years trying to get him to set down sonner. And jumped a ton of multiple bounces. But lots of practice is the best thing you can do...and ride it like a bounce (with a powerful but bouncy canter). All of them that tried to jump the whole bounce did it when I had too open of a canter (not EVER by my choice, but horsey wouldn't come back--and with broodmare, if you just pulled, she got longer! Fun).
                            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My first XC bounce (circa 1993 or '94) was out in the middle of a big field. I was going Prelim with no coach and traveled to the event alone. I didn't really even know anyone there. I walked the course and found the bounce distance to be 12'. Wow. Huh. 12', eh? Hmmm, usually my bounces (in the ring) are 9'. This seems a little long, eh? So out we go, gallopy-gallop, down the banks, across the field to our l-o-n-g bounce. Maybe I took a tiny tug. Clearly not a big enough one. Jumped in, ate the out. Horse chested it. I went over, he came over, I held the reins, crawled up on the log, slid back into the tack, continued on our way, finished within the time! Good lord...Those were the days, eh? I have it on video and it is really one of the funniest things to watch......It seems to me that bounces were pretty much removed from XC courses in the late 90's. Janet? Was there a rules change?
                              Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by RiverBendPol View Post
                                My first XC bounce (circa 1993 or '94) was out in the middle of a big field. I was going Prelim with no coach and traveled to the event alone. I didn't really even know anyone there. I walked the course and found the bounce distance to be 12'. Wow. Huh. 12', eh? Hmmm, usually my bounces (in the ring) are 9'. This seems a little long, eh? So out we go, gallopy-gallop, down the banks, across the field to our l-o-n-g bounce. Maybe I took a tiny tug. Clearly not a big enough one. Jumped in, ate the out. Horse chested it. I went over, he came over, I held the reins, crawled up on the log, slid back into the tack, continued on our way, finished within the time! Good lord...Those were the days, eh? I have it on video and it is really one of the funniest things to watch......It seems to me that bounces were pretty much removed from XC courses in the late 90's. Janet? Was there a rules change?

                                lol...might need a disclaimer for the young readers to let them know 12' is a normal distance for a bounce on xc and after a long gallop, likely ride snug Nothing like learning things the hard way.


                                They are still out there...just not as common.
                                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  On prelim courses in Area IV I have only seen a few true bounces-the one more recently at Fox River valley they were offset so that the prelim riders could take an option-jump the first one and circle around to another coop. The CIC* riders had to go through the bounce.

                                  When I rode it I took the option, but we schooled after and did it and it rode nicely. It came up off of a turn which helped set up for it.

                                  I remember seeing one about 4-5 years ago at Heritage park that was a bounce set down a hill and I think it was after a fairly straight gallop, had to be on your toes for that one!

                                  FRV and Otter Creek both have bounce banks as well.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I have never understood why bounces are allowed at Prelim on xc, but not in stadium.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I know I'm reviving a more or less dead thread, but here's a vid of horse trying to clear a bounce bank. Oy!!!

                                      http://youtu.be/GcDCtNIAn1I

                                      (from horsenation)

                                      I know this was posted on CoTH when it happened, but can't remember who, the event, the level, etc.

                                      Horse sure is scopey.
                                      I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                      I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Lori B View Post
                                        I know I'm reviving a more or less dead thread, but here's a vid of horse trying to clear a bounce bank. Oy!!!

                                        http://youtu.be/GcDCtNIAn1I

                                        (from horsenation)

                                        I know this was posted on CoTH when it happened, but can't remember who, the event, the level, etc.

                                        Horse sure is scopey.
                                        It says in the video that it is at a CIC*. Not a great approach given by the rider but they did a good job of staying out the way when all hell was breaking loose.

                                        You do see bounces as part of combinations or banks like this one....but not as often the true bounce we used to have that were just massive hanging logs by themselves as a bounce....sometimes after a long gallop or down hill approach. It required you to be able to get back a bouncy canter---something the rider in this video should have also had rather than taken the bank on with a lengthening stride. Glad it worked out for them...clever horse.
                                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                        Comment

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