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Sold a saddle on ebay: now she wants to return it because it has "defects"?

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  • Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
    Paypal is not a good thing when it comes to selling saddles.
    PayPal/eBay is not your friend when you are selling anything. I have hundreds of transactions on eBay from many years ago, but stopped selling there after getting shafted by PayPal several times. In my experience, no amount of evidence, logic, or previous positive feedback will sway their opinion.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
      You have the saddle back in your possession.

      You have testimony from a saddle fitter here that the holes will not affect the value.

      You could turn around and sell the saddle for what you sold it for in the first place.

      Granted the way the whole deal went down is unfortunate, but besides your time and the aggravation, what have you really lost here?

      Can you really justify keeping that person's money?
      The buyer bought the saddle as a final sale.

      She took it to a (maybe) pro and had them slit it open, which may or may not affect its value, but which no matter what is something you do with *your* property, not someone else's.

      Can they really justify forcing the seller to re-accept this now-modified final sale? And it was forced on the seller.
      Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

      Comment


      • If someone was referring to my post, it is not "testimony".

        It is my opinion that properly cut flocking holes will not impact the value of the saddle.

        Some saddles come with flocking holes in an accessible spot.

        Personally, if it were me & my saddle, I'd just resell it and quit using ebay/paypal for expensive saddles.

        I don't think any amount of hand wringing and internet posting about it will change the new flocking holes or the eBay/Paypal decision.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
          I am just saying that if the OP has the saddle back in her possession, and if she could get $2600 for it if she re-listed it or consigned it, then maybe it's not fair to keep the buyer's money.

          Some of you here are saying she should not take it back. But she already did.

          OP, this all sounds like a really bad experience, but honestly, you think that saddle is now worthless?
          OP did not "take the saddle back" - eBay/PayPal forced it on her. Though at least she has the saddle back.

          I don't think the OP is suggesting that it is completely worthless, but if she got $2600 for it without the slits, why should she expect to get the same amount for it with slits? The buyer purchased it knowing it was final sale, and after not getting it to fit the way she wanted, returned it modified.

          Think about it this way - if you bought an expensive pair of pants from a store, took them home, had them hemmed, and then decided they did not fit, would you expect the store to take them back and issue you a full refund? The pants are not "worthless" but they have been modified from the condition that you received them in from the store.

          Comment


          • Not that it matters to Ebay, but you might want to point them to this thread. They do seem to care if they lose sellers. They recently changed their fee structure because they were losing sellers with the old structure. Bottom line, if their new policies result in only stores selling, rather than small sellers, they will soon become the same as Amazon. Then they will cease to exist.

            Comment


            • The buyer shouldn't have done it- but the slits are common and very unlikely to devalue the saddle. The next buyer is likely to neither notice nor care. My practical advice is to send the saddle on consignment to someone good (fineusedsaddles or Patti Merli or Trumbull etc.) and stop fighting eBay which is likely to be futile. The buyer gamed the system, but many of us told you think was going to happen and you might have saved some time/headache and the adjustment to the saddle if you would have taken it back immediately when the seller raised issues. Lesson learned. It's a nice saddle you'll have little trouble selling on consignment.
              ~Veronica
              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
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              Comment


              • Originally posted by rothmpp View Post
                OP did not "take the saddle back" - eBay/PayPal forced it on her. Though at least she has the saddle back.

                I don't think the OP is suggesting that it is completely worthless, but if she got $2600 for it without the slits, why should she expect to get the same amount for it with slits? The buyer purchased it knowing it was final sale, and after not getting it to fit the way she wanted, returned it modified.

                Think about it this way - if you bought an expensive pair of pants from a store, took them home, had them hemmed, and then decided they did not fit, would you expect the store to take them back and issue you a full refund? The pants are not "worthless" but they have been modified from the condition that you received them in from the store.
                You try the pants on before buying them. Wool-flocked saddles are made to be modified. That's one reason why they hold their value.

                I agree, the whole thing stinks, but for the OP to have the saddle back and be able to resell it, and not return ANY of the buyer's money seems really unfair.

                Imagine if the buyer instead had tried to keep the "defective" saddle and not return the money.
                A helmet saved my life.

                2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

                Comment


                • The whole situation is messy. The saddle should have been final sale. The buyer bought it and should have either kept it or sold it on. Once she had work done on it, IMO she lost the ability to return it, "defects" or not.

                  I agree that now that the OP has the saddle in her possession, it seems unfair to keep all of the buyer's $$. Should the buyer be forced to take it back and deal with it as "her" property? If not, what is a fair amount to refund? Is there a County rep who can make that evaluation? Did the work that was done on the saddle void the manufacturer's warranty?

                  It's hard to know. I can't tell from the photos posted whether or not the slits that were made are unusual. I have a County that is reflocked using slits. It did not impact the integrity of the saddle nor do I think it affects its resale value.

                  It might be worth showing the saddle to a reputable consignment dealer and see how they price it before taking this to the mat.

                  At this point the OP has considerable emotional energy invested in this. She's had to file a police report, she's been treated poorly by eBay and she's justifiably annoyed. The tight timeframe required by eBay for her to respond to the issue has only exacerbated the issue.

                  The real problem here is eBay/Paypal who have put in place a system that screws the seller. Buyers can return anything for any reason and the seller can't do a darn thing about it, even when they have irrevocably altered the original item.

                  As I've said before, I've sold and bought a lot of saddles on eBay -- some of them pretty nice ones. I guess I've been really, really lucky because I've never had a problem. However, I will now think twice before listing a saddle again and I'm sure that's not what eBay wants to hear.
                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
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                  Comment


                  • for those that sell saddles on ebay - the thing to do is to accept returns or conversely - do trial periods - this saves everyone a bunch of time and heartache.

                    OP give the buyer her money back and move on...... you will be forced to do so anyway you might as well do it graciously....

                    Comment


                    • Even if you do accept returns, I doubt anyone would be happy to accept a return where the saddle has been altered. You cut a hole it it and reflock it, particularly using an unafilited fitter, you buy it. The trousers analogy is apt. I can't believe people are criticising the seller here. She's probably screwed but that's not her fault, that's entirely the fault of the crooked buyer and eBay's crazy policies. OP you have my sympathies and I think your experience has been a good lesson learned for everyone who might have contemplated selling something expensive on eBay. You're completely at the mercy of the buyer's sense of honesty and fair play. There are better markets for pricey items that provide better protections for the seller.

                      Comment


                      • I have 4 County saddles, all have had flocking adjustments done, none required "new" highly visible slits to be made in the panels as shown in MJ848's photo of the now altered saddle - nor is there any "wool" visibly projecting from the panels

                        The slit on the right side of the photo actually looks as if it also has a cross cut & is not mere a "slit" - this is supposed to the work of a "professional" saddle fitter why would this individual not have used the normal adjustment slits that are already present in the panels.
                        I agree with the County rep who suggested that the integrity of the panels is likely affected - this is NOT a usual place for these slits to be done.

                        When the buyer chose to permanently alter the saddle, it became non-returnable: this is industry standard with regard to saddle sales.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          Originally posted by NCRider View Post
                          Even if you do accept returns, I doubt anyone would be happy to accept a return where the saddle has been altered. You cut a hole it it and reflock it, particularly using an unafilited fitter, you buy it. The trousers analogy is apt. I can't believe people are criticising the seller here. She's probably screwed but that's not her fault, that's entirely the fault of the crooked buyer and eBay's crazy policies. OP you have my sympathies and I think your experience has been a good lesson learned for everyone who might have contemplated selling something expensive on eBay. You're completely at the mercy of the buyer's sense of honesty and fair play. There are better markets for pricey items that provide better protections for the seller.
                          Thank you. I would have sent it to fine used saddles if I would have known ebay was this way. I had no idea that ebay would not ask for actual proof from the buyer. I feel like I was completely screwed over on this and I will fight this to the finish because I have nothing better to do. The cuts on the panels are not very good. They are jagged and can't be sewn back together. They would have to be patched by a professional which is going to cost $. For me to have a saddle rep to come look at it and tell me what the new value would also cost $. I just really don't know what to do anymore. I have no idea is a consignment shop would even take a saddle with cuts like these.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mbm View Post
                            for those that sell saddles on ebay - the thing to do is to accept returns or conversely - do trial periods - this saves everyone a bunch of time and heartache.

                            OP give the buyer her money back and move on...... you will be forced to do so anyway you might as well do it graciously....
                            Well then the solution is simple, ebay can state officially that it has a no "No Return" policy
                            - BUT they won't do this as it would greatly impact their business.

                            Why does everyone wish to deny the OP's right to fight for justuice: why should she expect ebay to not stand behind their own rules ie allowing buyers to choose a "No Return" policy with regard to a sale.

                            If the saddle had been returned unaltered, it would be a different scenario but the buyer has trangressed in multiple ways in this transaction: OP is under no moral, ethical or other obligation to act graciously.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kelchm View Post
                              PayPal/eBay is not your friend when you are selling anything. I have hundreds of transactions on eBay from many years ago, but stopped selling there after getting shafted by PayPal several times. In my experience, no amount of evidence, logic, or previous positive feedback will sway their opinion.
                              This is my experience as well. I was “shafted” when I only had a shipping receipt, and proof of delivery which were not online trackable – because at buyers request, I had sent the product USPS ground – which does not include online tracking.

                              I asked PayPal – If I sold a CAR – would I need an “online trackable shipping receipt for it?” they said “YES, that is our policy”.

                              No reason, no common sense, it’s a HORRIBLE company to deal with as a seller.
                              APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
                                You try the pants on before buying them. Wool-flocked saddles are made to be modified. That's one reason why they hold their value.

                                I agree, the whole thing stinks, but for the OP to have the saddle back and be able to resell it, and not return ANY of the buyer's money seems really unfair.

                                Imagine if the buyer instead had tried to keep the "defective" saddle and not return the money.
                                My point is that the buyer apparently liked the saddle well enough to get the fitter out (tried them on) and have the flocking worked on (hemmed). Then decided to come up with a list of things so that she could return the saddle. Not own up to wanting to return the saddle because it did not fit.

                                When you've tried on the pants and like them well enough to take them to the tailor (saddle fitter) and have them modified (reflocked), you should not then expect that you would be able to return them for a full refund.

                                I don't think that the OP should get both the saddle and the money, but I certainly think that eBay should have OP send the saddle back to the buyer and OP should get the money back, based on the fact that the buyer felt good enough about the condition of the saddle that she attempted to have it fitted.

                                And while they do not tell you this - PayPal can make them both whole - they can reimburse the OP out of their own funds, and leave the buyer with their refund. OP may be required to surrender the saddle to PayPal, but at this point I have to believe she would be fine with that.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
                                  Apparently she is talking about the rolled material attached to the panels... She opened a case through ebay. We will see what happens. Here is the case she filed.
                                  this is called the saddle piping and anybody calling it a "saddle cord" really has no idea what they are talking about, and definitely aren't experts in saddles!

                                  I would really question the rep's motives, by trying to convince the buyer that the saddle is defective I think they are just trying to get them to return it so they can sell them another one.

                                  And in any case, they should be able to provide pictures of defective saddle piping, which by the way is really not a big deal even if it proves damaged. A small partial refund would be the maximum she could ask in my opinion; and even then you shouldn't feel obliged to do it.

                                  Did she send you pictures? (sorry if this has been asked already, I haven't read the whole thread yet...)


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                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by rothmpp View Post
                                    And while they do not tell you this - PayPal can make them both whole - they can reimburse the OP out of their own funds, and leave the buyer with their refund. OP may be required to surrender the saddle to PayPal, but at this point I have to believe she would be fine with that.

                                    ^ Precisely.

                                    I believe OP would happly "return" the saddle to the buyer (or Ebay) in exchange for the funds for which the "No Return" item was sold.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by MILOUTE55 View Post
                                      this is called the saddle piping and anybody calling it a "saddle cord" really has no idea what they are talking about, and definitely aren't experts in saddles!

                                      Did she send you pictures? (sorry if this has been asked already, I haven't read the whole thread yet...)
                                      Definitely read through MJ848's posts - she was forced by ebay to accept return of the saddle BUT saddle was altered by the buyer who now wishes to cancel her transaction - unfortunately MJ848 cannot cancel the jagged slits that were made in the panels by someone claimed by the buyer to be a professional saddle fitter...

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                        The Buyer's authority is Paul Selvey in CA? That's the guy who owns Superior Saddlery, right?
                                        oh that explains everything, Paul is a nice guy but he does manufacture his own brand of saddles... definitely not an independent saddle fitter. Of course he would encourage the buyer to return the saddle so he can sell one of his...

                                        Now regarding current situation, I second the poster who advised you to contact Patricia of Fine Used Saddles. She will do a great job selling it for you for more money that you could get on Ebay. I've never heard one single negative feedback on Patricia, and I can tell you she has helped a lot of people! I can give you her info in a PM if you want.

                                        I would be pissed about the saddle alteration though, I do agree that it's not a huge deal but any alteration done by others than the original manufacturer is going to impact the saddle value.
                                        Last edited by MILOUTE55; Oct. 24, 2012, 12:20 PM. Reason: adding sthg


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                                        • Originally posted by alto View Post
                                          Definitely read through MJ848's posts - she was forced by ebay to accept return of the saddle BUT saddle was altered by the buyer who now wishes to cancel her transaction - unfortunately MJ848 cannot cancel the jagged slits that were made in the panels by someone claimed by the buyer to be a professional saddle fitter...
                                          yup I see that now... sorry for not reading through the whole thing before posting...
                                          Buyer or so-called saddle fitter kept hurting my eyes with this "cord" thing


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