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Sold a saddle on ebay: now she wants to return it because it has "defects"?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
    I do too!
    Why not send the buyer an emails asking her what she means?
    Or call your saddle fitter/rep and ask her.

    Comment


    • #42
      I just had a crazy thought about your crazy buyer, I wonder if by saddle cord she means a grab or bucking strap? That would be cheap to send her!

      Comment


      • #43
        I bet the saddle cord is the rolled leather trim that goes around the back of the cantle.

        Comment


        • #44
          In my experience, 99% of the time eBay and PayPal side with the buyer. I did once get royally screwed when I was the buyer because eBay determined that the seller had ample photos of the defective area in the ad (she did not though she had scads of other photos, but it was an equine item and it was clear that despite by efforts to explain- the person reviewing the claim was non-horsey and didn't know where s/he was suposed to be looking) and because I didn't message the seller ahead of time to ask about the defect (er, it wasn't pictured OR mentioned so how would I know to ask?!). I have never had that happen before. I called and complained and filed an appeal but lost that too. That's been my one abberant experience. Every.single.other.time the buyer has won (whether I was the buyer or the other person was). Every.single.other.time. I don't care what so-and-so at customer service told you. They aren't the claims people and if this going to a claim, you're looking at huge odds you will lose.

          Is this the saddle you bought new from County and it came and didn't fit? I don't understand why you took on the risk of resale and this entire hassle. Why didn't you DEMAND County take it back and replace it or give you a refund? They were the deep pocket against whom you had leverage/bargaining power. Not this random on eBay who now has you in her screws. If she's offering to send it back and pay return shipping, I'd do it. And then I'd MAKE COUNTY TAKE IT BACK OR MAKE IT RIGHT.

          Maybe the same things that made it not fit when you bought it are the same things her fitter is now claiming are defects? And she threw in that 'saddle cord' thing because she's being savvy (and dishonest) and wants to hit multiple bases for an email claim (not only defective and not as advertised but also missing parts). You didn't like this out-of-the-box from County. Maybe she didn't either for the exact same reasons.

          County needs to make this right. Not her. Not eBay. County.
          ~Veronica
          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
          http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #45
            Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
            In my experience, 99% of the time eBay and PayPal side with the buyer. I did once get royally screwed when I was the buyer because eBay determined that the seller had ample photos of the defective area in the ad (she did not though she had scads of other photos, but it was an equine item and it was clear that despite by efforts to explain- the person reviewing the claim was non-horsey and didn't know where s/he was suposed to be looking) and because I didn't message the seller ahead of time to ask about the defect (er, it wasn't pictured OR mentioned so how would I know to ask?!). I have never had that happen before. I called and complained and filed an appeal but lost that too. That's been my one abberant experience. Every.single.other.time the buyer has won (whether I was the buyer or the other person was). Every.single.other.time. I don't care what so-and-so at customer service told you. They aren't the claims people and if this going to a claim, you're looking at huge odds you will lose.

            Is this the saddle you bought new from County and it came and didn't fit? I don't understand why you took on the risk of resale and this entire hassle. Why didn't you DEMAND County take it back and replace it or give you a refund? They were the deep pocket against whom you had leverage/bargaining power. Not this random on eBay who now has you in her screws. If she's offering to send it back and pay return shipping, I'd do it. And then I'd MAKE COUNTY TAKE IT BACK OR MAKE IT RIGHT.

            Maybe the same things that made it not fit when you bought it are the same things her fitter is now claiming are defects? And she threw in that 'saddle cord' thing because she's being savvy (and dishonest) and wants to hit multiple bases for an email claim (not only defective and not as advertised but also missing parts). You didn't like this out-of-the-box from County. Maybe she didn't either for the exact same reasons.

            County needs to make this right. Not her. Not eBay. County.
            County told me everything is fine on the saddle but it just doesn't fit my horse anymore. Horse apparently changed and it doesn't fit. I don't 100% believe it fit in the first place but I know for a fact that there is nothing wrong with the saddle blocks or the flap lengths. Sorry I would have noticed that after having it for a year. I am a very picky person. The fact that the saddle doesn't fit my horse has nothing to do with this person saying it has defects. County didn't want to own up to fitting my horse wrong and the size down doesn't even fit him correctly either. I have the right to sell a saddle that doesn't fit my horse. There is nothing wrong with that. I purchased it, I can sell it. If she wants to get a county rep to say its defective thats fine but some random saddle fitter can't just prove there is something wrong with it when they aren't an actual county saddle rep.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
              County told me everything is fine on the saddle but it just doesn't fit my horse anymore. Horse apparently changed and it doesn't fit. I don't 100% believe it fit in the first place but I know for a fact that there is nothing wrong with the saddle blocks or the flap lengths. Sorry I would have noticed that after having it for a year. I am a very picky person. The fact that the saddle doesn't fit my horse has nothing to do with this person saying it has defects. County didn't want to own up to fitting my horse wrong and the size down doesn't even fit him correctly either. I have the right to sell a saddle that doesn't fit my horse. There is nothing wrong with that. I purchased it, I can sell it. If she wants to get a county rep to say its defective thats fine but some random saddle fitter can't just prove there is something wrong with it when they aren't an actual county saddle rep.
              I'm not saying you're wrong that the saddle is non-defective. I am sure you're correct. I believe you that you'd notice if the blocks and flap were off. Doesn't make a lick of difference. She will say they are and eBay will likely side with her.

              I missed that you had this and rode in it for a year and then it didn't fit. I totally missed that the first go round. Am I confused or is that right? I thought from your posting on MtyMax's other thread about her County issues that you ordered it and as soon as it came it didn't fit and you were unhappy. I am totally confused!

              No one's saying you don't have the RIGHT to sell the saddle. I am just telling you that eBay is GOING to find in the buyer's favor if she takes it to a claim. Which she surely will if she's even slightly eBay experienced. She can lie like crazy, they will take her side, and you will lose.

              If you have a way to go against County, I think that is BY FAR your better bet. But this was when I thought you got a bad saddle right off the bat and make a stink with County. Not when you got one, rode in it for a year, and then decided it didn't fit. The confusion is me, not you. But it changes my answer. If you had this for a year and rode in it, I can see why County won't take it back. I thought you were in a different position vis-a-vis County. I was confused.

              What I do know is... posture you're in now? You're very likely to get screwed through eBay. All this talk of proof, getting a County fitter to look at it-- doesn't matter. If she files a claim, she will win.
              ~Veronica
              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
              http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #47
                Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                I'm not saying you're wrong that the saddle is non-defective. I am sure you're correct. I believe you that you'd notice if the blocks and flap were off. Doesn't make a lick of difference. She will say they are and eBay will likely side with her.

                I missed that you had this and rode in it for a year and then it didn't fit. I totally missed that the first go round. Am I confused or is that right? I thought from your posting on MtyMax's other thread about her County issues that you ordered it and as soon as it came it didn't fit and you were unhappy. I am totally confused!

                No one's saying you don't have the RIGHT to sell the saddle. I am just telling you that eBay is GOING to find in the buyer's favor if she takes it to a claim. Which she surely will if she's even slightly eBay experienced. She can lie like crazy, they will take her side, and you will lose.

                If you have a way to go against County, I think that is BY FAR your better bet. But this was when I thought you got a bad saddle right off the bat and make a stink with County. Not when you got one, rode in it for a year, and then decided it didn't fit. The confusion is me, not you. But it changes my answer. If you had this for a year and rode in it, I can see why County won't take it back. I thought you were in a different position vis-a-vis County. I was confused.

                What I do know is... posture you're in now? You're very likely to get screwed through eBay. All this talk of proof, getting a County fitter to look at it-- doesn't matter. If she files a claim, she will win.
                When I bought the saddle, the rep told me it fit. Rode in it for a year and then a different rep from a different state said it didnt fit. So county did screw me over because it never fit in the first place. They just told me it did. County will not take responsibility for it. End of story.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
                  When I bought the saddle, the rep told me it fit. Rode in it for a year and then a different rep from a different state said it didnt fit. So county did screw me over because it never fit in the first place. They just told me it did. County will not take responsibility for it. End of story.
                  I think County did screw you over (and you're not the only one I've seen that happen to). But I think in keeping the saddle for a year, you put yourself in a very different bargaining position with them. And they do suck. And generally won't take responsibility once there's been passage of time. Every day that goes by, it's easier for them to say "the saddle fit, it's your horse that's changed." Whether it's true or not, it's much easier for them to make that argument a year later than a week after the saddle was delivered.

                  I thought you had JUST gotten the saddle and were unhappy which is why I was encouraging you to push with them NOW.
                  ~Veronica
                  "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                  http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    WOW .. people are crazy.

                    I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. I think that you have done everything right and she's just being dumb.

                    I agree with Vineyridge.. she needs to have a real person look at it, not "someone who used to work somewhere".
                    ::Karley::

                    Henry (House of Fortuny) 7 yr old OTTB
                    http://dondeestahenry.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by shea'smom View Post
                      I still want to know what a saddle cord is.
                      It's the thing you plug intot he wall... you know so it vibrates and everything.

                      Sorry, OP, didn't mean to interrupt yuor thread, but it just could be this gal has unreasonable expectations of her saddle.
                      ::I do not understand your specific kind of crazy, but I do admire your total commitment to it::

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
                        It's the thing you plug intot he wall... you know so it vibrates and everything.

                        Sorry, OP, didn't mean to interrupt yuor thread, but it just could be this gal has unreasonable expectations of her saddle.
                        Apparently she is talking about the rolled material attached to the panels... She opened a case through ebay. We will see what happens. Here is the case she filed.

                        I ordered a used saddle in good condition. Upon receipt of the saddle I discovered that it comes with manufacturer defects: knee blocks are not in same position which causes one of knee flaps to be more forward than the other. The supportive cord that goes between the saddle panels and the seat is about 2 inches not installed on the left side. The seat webbing is weak. The seller claims the saddle is still under warranty. I, however, believe that the seller should be dealing with manufacturer. I was buying a used saddle in good condition, not a used saddle with manufacturer defects.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
                          Apparently she is talking about the rolled material attached to the panels... She opened a case through ebay. We will see what happens. Here is the case she filed.

                          I ordered a used saddle in good condition. Upon receipt of the saddle I discovered that it comes with manufacturer defects: knee blocks are not in same position which causes one of knee flaps to be more forward than the other. The supportive cord that goes between the saddle panels and the seat is about 2 inches not installed on the left side. The seat webbing is weak. The seller claims the saddle is still under warranty. I, however, believe that the seller should be dealing with manufacturer. I was buying a used saddle in good condition, not a used saddle with manufacturer defects.
                          Well I mean...is it short by two inches on one side? Can she take photos to prove it?

                          Because if that is indeed the case (and I don't think she's ballsy enough to make that up only to send it back to you perfectly symmetrical) then I completely understand her statement about buying a used saddle, not a used one with defects, warrenty or not.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            The way she wrote that makes it sound as if you're trying to unload the saddle on her instead of following up with County yourself. And when you counter with the inspection it could look like you tried to get County to fix it and they wouldn't.

                            ::I do not understand your specific kind of crazy, but I do admire your total commitment to it::

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              This happened to me....sold a used saddle on eBay with a no-return policy. She received it, and -- I am positive -- put it on her horse, found it didn't fit, and subsequently sent me a lathered response about it being misrepresented because the tree was broken. What? I had the saddle for more than a year and I think I would've noticed. But that was the only way to return the saddle via the misrepresented claim.

                              I had to take the saddle back and give her money back (I refused to give her shipping costs back, though). I was very afraid I'd end up without the money and without the saddle, but I did get it back.

                              Took it to a County-approved person to inspect the saddle, which was -- surprise! -- perfectly fine.

                              I have lost a lot of time and money on the deal and still have a saddle I don't need. It is very unfortunate and a HUGE hassle.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by kchfuller View Post
                                WOW .. people are crazy.

                                I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. I think that you have done everything right and she's just being dumb.

                                I agree with Vineyridge.. she needs to have a real person look at it, not "someone who used to work somewhere".
                                She's not even remotely dumb, she's the opposite actually. She probably found that saddle didn't fit her horse and, knowing that eBay almost always finds for the buyer if a claim is opened, she made something up about it being defective and opened a claim. She did this to avid the hassle of having to sell the saddle herself.

                                Dishonest, sure. But not dumb.
                                Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Coanteen View Post
                                  She's not even remotely dumb, she's the opposite actually. She probably found that saddle didn't fit her horse and, knowing that eBay almost always finds for the buyer if a claim is opened, she made something up about it being defective and opened a claim. She did this to avid the hassle of having to sell the saddle herself.

                                  Dishonest, sure. But not dumb.
                                  Okay but no one read the new post. The buyer is claiming the saddle cording or whatever is short by two inches on one side....it may not affect the usability of the saddle, but if it really is true then that is indeed a defect, and I'd be annoyed too, as the buyer.

                                  OP, I suggest you play nice for a bit and ask her to send you photos of each side of the saddle, with a ruler, to verify the unsymmetrical cording.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    I hope you update us when the saddle does come back; curious if the ebay buyer did find defects. A student of mine brought a saddle out to try a little while ago; the flaps were indeed different on both sides, yet the seller either didn't know or was hoping we wouldn't. It wasn't that easy to see, but definately measured different!
                                    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Don't forget that the person reviewing claims...

                                      1. Isn't horsey and won't have a clue what either party is saying
                                      2. Is not looking for or weighing heavily "evidence" and credibility
                                      3. Is going to start with the presumption that the buyer is right

                                      Buyer says its defective. Seller says its not. He said, she said. Ebay will find for the buyer.
                                      ~Veronica
                                      "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                      http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
                                        Apparently she is talking about the rolled material attached to the panels... She opened a case through ebay. We will see what happens. Here is the case she filed.

                                        I ordered a used saddle in good condition. Upon receipt of the saddle I discovered that it comes with manufacturer defects: knee blocks are not in same position which causes one of knee flaps to be more forward than the other. The supportive cord that goes between the saddle panels and the seat is about 2 inches not installed on the left side. The seat webbing is weak. The seller claims the saddle is still under warranty. I, however, believe that the seller should be dealing with manufacturer. I was buying a used saddle in good condition, not a used saddle with manufacturer defects.
                                        Uneven blocks will cause the rider knees to be put in different position. Which is not cool indeed. But it WON'T change the position of the entire flaps...

                                        Weak seat webbing? What kind of saddle did you sold her?

                                        Supportive cord not installed on one side? I don't know what this is, and I would be if there was even one on my saddle...

                                        There is no way a real saddler would have talked in those terms.

                                        First : Ask her to send you pictures of the defective area.

                                        Second : Ask her to give you her saddle fitter's phone number and have a polite chat with him.

                                        Third : Talk back with your County rep.
                                        ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                        Originally posted by LauraKY
                                        I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                        HORSING mobile training app

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          The Buyer's authority is Paul Selvey in CA? That's the guy who owns Superior Saddlery, right?

                                          The odds being against you as far as Ebay/Paypal goes aside, can you ask her to get a current County rep to show you the purported manufacturer's defects? Selvey (or whoever) who was merely a County rep in the past and is now competing with them arguably has a conflict of interest.

                                          If you say the saddle doesn't have these glaring asymmetries, I believe you. It would have been hard to ride in that thing for a year and not notice.

                                          Best of luck to you!
                                          The armchair saddler
                                          Politically Pro-Cat

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