• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Boekelo Grants Announced

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    What's up with Harbour Pilot?

    I just looked up his 2012 results and they have been less than sterling at Advanced.

    Absolute Liberty hasn't done anything that shows up in the USEF Results since she withdrew at Rolex.

    Those are two horses that one hoped, after the Pan Ams, would become successful International horses at Advanced. But so far they haven't.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #42
      Ok so Boekelo is on this weekend...

      Here are the results after Dressage:

      http://janssen.sportcg.net/2012/boek...erboard01.html

      Nice to see Clark doing so well.

      Will be interesting to see how the course rides.

      Emily
      "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

      Comment


      • #43
        What is it about US eventing and dressage? Our top rider is 25th, then the next two are 40 and 41, followed by 60th and a tie for 72nd. If dressage is all important for setting up the rest of the competition, the American team should pack up tonight.
        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
        Thread killer Extraordinaire

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          Makes you wonder if Mike Pollard is on to a good idea. Giving up your grants in favor of staying stateside in favor of allowing the US to keep the money if you know you're not ready.


          But hey.... lessons may still come on xc or stadium.

          Emily
          "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #45
            OK so XC results are in....

            http://janssen.sportcg.net/2012/boek...erboard01.html

            Atlas and PD were eliminated on XC

            Loughan Glen and Clark had a stop and time in 67th

            Downtown Harrison and Jon (Bromont CCI*** winners in June) are in 53rd after adding 14.8 time

            Cambalda and Jennie (coming back from an injury to "Ping" last year) are in 49th after adding 10 time faults

            Clark and Universe are in 32nd after adding 7.6 time faults. This horse is the highest place American and I believe, though feel free to correct me, the only one who paid his own way to get here and isn't there on grant money.


            ~Emily
            "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

            Comment


            • #46
              so, what does everyone think now after cc?
              www.camaloufarms.com

              ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"

              Comment


              • #47
                USEF wasted a bunch of money sending these horses to an International competition. JMO.

                From my number crunching, no horse has the possibility of a decent (top ten or fifteen) finish in International competition if they don't have a dressage score that is 69% or above. USEF would have done much better to have used the money and brought Bettina Hoy in and sent her to the riders for one day's training. Again, JMO.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire

                Comment


                • #48
                  Jon won Bromont so what else is he going to prove in the USA? Coming top 10 at Fair Hill is hardly stretching him or making him realise what else he needs to do in order to be the best.

                  The same riders clear up time and time again in the USA and soon Clayton Fredericks will not be able to believe his luck with the dressage scores he is capable of. It was only last year that Boyd won Fair Hill on a horse who had been out of top level for 3 years and there last run at FEI level was a retirement at 4* level. Hardly audacious competition.

                  Everyone keeps moaning about the cost but Sinead has not done too badly out of her yearly trips abroad and it all started with a distinctly average showing at Boekelo coming 21st and finishing on a 69 in 2010.

                  If you look at the Brits results they are also distinctly mediocre as a lot of these are first time 3* horses. They are there to get experience not to win. Next season they will be expected to step up to the plate. It was only last year that Quimbo ridden by Andrew Nicholson was eliminated at Blenheim and now he is lying in 2nd.

                  In fact looking back to Boekelo 2010 -

                  Tiana was 2nd (since 2nd and Blenheim and though had an Olympics to forget will be back.)
                  Will Faudree was 12th on Andromaque - next year will be her year IMO.
                  Sinead was 21st
                  Doug on Running Order was well down the list.
                  It was in the same competition that High Kingdom ridden by Zara Phillips was eliminated - he has not done too badly since!
                  Other horses there - Opgun Louvo (Olympic team gold and ind bronze) Landvision (Badminton winner) River of Joy (top placings 3*), Leopin (4* winner), Wega (Olympic medal), Treason (multiple placings and thought of very highly in UK), Lanfranco TSF (well placed at Blenheim), WFP on Lionheart was 34th!

                  The quality is immense and all the above have gone on from Boekelo. It is very useful to pitch yourself against some of the best horses in the world. I also think its better to come 21st against that sort of quality than come 2nd to a horse who has been retired from top level and came back to win and whose last time out scored a 52 in Luhmuhlen when the winner was on 32 (who was also at Boekelo in 2010 and came 7th!!)

                  Eventing is about the long game. Phillip Dutton and Karen O Connor tried the quick route and it did not work.
                  The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                    Makes you wonder if Mike Pollard is on to a good idea. Giving up your grants in favor of staying stateside in favor of allowing the US to keep the money if you know you're not ready.


                    But hey.... lessons may still come on xc or stadium.

                    Emily
                    This. Only lessons xc were disappointing.
                    Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

                    www.twingates.com

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      why were lessons on cc disappointing? jon and jeanie both went clean with time, not too shabby i feel. and clark had one stop on glen and also clean with time on universe
                      www.camaloufarms.com

                      ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Let's just say it cost a minimum of 25k per horse to send them to Boekelo for a "run and done" trip to Europe. We sent horses who, as evidenced by results, were nowhere near ready for that level of competition. IMO, the money could have been more wisely used, since it's a chunk of cash that the USEF doesn't have. It's not as if we don't know already how pitiful International US eventing has become.
                        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                        Thread killer Extraordinaire

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Maybe I'm just not "getting it" but how does spending tons of money to send unprepared horses and riders overseas benefit anybody? All I ever hear is people saying that we need to get more riders overseas. If we could get more riders TRAINING overseas with the people that consistently beat us that would be great. But I don't understand how competing overseas and doing poorly helps at all.

                          Why waste all of that time and money to compete overseas when we can be at home, training and preparing more. I understand that we are judged less harshly here, specifically in dressage, but even if these riders are getting good scores, shouldn't they know that their dressage work is not up to par? Just because you score in the low 40s in a USA FEI event doesn't mean your work is great quality, and I feel like the riders and coaches should recognize that. I'm sure we have all had a dressage test where we were scored a little better than we thought we should have been. Why can't the upper level riders realize this?

                          I may be way off here but I just don't see a benefit in wasting money sending these riders overseas to get creamed by the competition.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            We need to get them exposed, to stiffer competition, stiffer courses, the horses use to air travel, etc. etc. we cant expect Jon Holling to do nothing the next two years and then maon at WEG when we dont win. We cant have it both ways, moaning we arent sending people for exposure, we arent winning medals.....it was a dissapointing day....in dressage....but I think we need to address that as a different thing....and until we quit forcing horses into frames, and we go forward and p into frame, well......the writting is on the wall.
                            May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                            www.mmceventing.com

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I think these grants are use it or lose it so I understand why they send a team because they're competition grants not training grants. I don't know who would have the authority to redirect the money to training.

                              I do think that it's not all about the dressage and there is some value in practicing xc and stadium over championship type courses abroad with all the atmosphere. As far as our riders being unprepared for the dressage, Jennie in particular is actually a very good dressage rider and has shown herself capable of scoring with the leaders in Europe in the past. xC has been the bogey on international trips. So maybe this extra practice will bear team fruit in the future.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                For not a lot more than these 25K grants, a horse and rider can spend 8 months riding/training/competing with the best in EU.

                                Of course, they would have to work off the rest of the costs by riding the BNR's horses and mucking, and sweeping, and help the kids with their English homework, and even some gardening/leaf raking/jump building, and be a server at the parties.... and discover that a day at the competition is considered a "day off" by the BNR and the work still needs to get done when you return to the barn at night!

                                And you ride the naughty ones along with the not so naughty ones, get bitten, kicked, bucked with, struck in the head, sleep in the lorrie, eat when you get a chance, get rained on for days on end.

                                But, they get to school Luhmuhlen, Sarehendorf, and Nindorf every week, and on multiple horses, compete with the best of the best every week, and watch the best of the best everyday! Experience a work ethic where the BNR has only taken one half day off in 8 months because he "has things that need improvment in his riding".

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Boekelo is the finale of this year's FEI Eventing Nations' Cup series, which is new this year as an FEI International Competition. So when the USEF sends a team, they are sending a Team. In that circumstance, ie Team, not team, doesn't the USEF normally pick up the cost of the competition? If this is like showjumping's Nations Cup competitions, does the USEF make a big production of individual grants to show jumpers and expect those grants to pay Team costs?

                                  I think that we should simply not send any horse over the ocean for competition that doesn't consistently get a 69% dressage score here--even if US scoring is 'soft'. And if that means nobody goes anywhere until the scores get up, so be it.
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Viney, that sounds a lot like Anne Gribbons " why bother if you can't win" philosophy. With respect to these team- like competitions, I see an inherent value in trying, in competing to the best of your ability within a team setting, against other nations, at the three star level. I see it as being particularly valuable now that the Pan Ams are a two star. If we sit around waiting until we can field 4 riders are regularly scoring 70 percent or better on their current mounts, we will have missed an awful lot of opportunities to improve and gain valuable xc and sj experience in international competition. We're having trouble in all three phases. In fact I would argue that an over focus on the gap in dressage is leading to the failures in the other phases.

                                    I do think these team competitions are more important than the individual grants so if we're looking to reallocate foreign travel money, I'd look at the individual grants, not the Boekelo team grants.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by maxxtrot View Post
                                      why were lessons on cc disappointing? jon and jeanie both went clean with time, not too shabby i feel. and clark had one stop on glen and also clean with time on universe
                                      Going clear is obviously task #1 but if we are to have a chance of medaling in the next WEG or Olympics we must raise the expected standards re: time pens. I'll take back earlier comment on Jennie's xc b/c she did move up the leader board but was starting so well down the order that only a double clear would have moved her significantly & Jon's time moved him down.

                                      Compare this with Ingrid (both horses), Dirk, Andreas Ostholt, Bettina, Beeke Jankowski, Benjamin Winter, Sandra Auffarth, Elmar Lesch and o/c Michael Jung - who more often than not ends on his (amazing) dressage scores & the difference between winning Olympic gold and going clean with time is starkly contrasted.

                                      Performance standards have changed in all phases and US riders are not keeping up.
                                      Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

                                      www.twingates.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by tuppysmom View Post
                                        For not a lot more than these 25K grants, a horse and rider can spend 8 months riding/training/competing with the best in EU.

                                        Of course, they would have to work off the rest of the costs by riding the BNR's horses and mucking, and sweeping, and help the kids with their English homework, and even some gardening/leaf raking/jump building, and be a server at the parties.... and discover that a day at the competition is considered a "day off" by the BNR and the work still needs to get done when you return to the barn at night!

                                        And you ride the naughty ones along with the not so naughty ones, get bitten, kicked, bucked with, struck in the head, sleep in the lorrie, eat when you get a chance, get rained on for days on end.

                                        But, they get to school Luhmuhlen, Sarehendorf, and Nindorf every week, and on multiple horses, compete with the best of the best every week, and watch the best of the best everyday! Experience a work ethic where the BNR has only taken one half day off in 8 months because he "has things that need improvment in his riding".
                                        ******* THIS ******.

                                        And for clarification, the BNR who has taken 1/2 day in 8 mo's b/c he "has things that need improvement in his riding" is 2008 Individual Gold medalist, Andreas Dibowski.
                                        Owner of ATA and Verband-Approved Trakehner stallion, Tzigane *Pb*, breeder of ATA-approved Semper Fidelis

                                        www.twingates.com

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I don't think this weekend was a bad showing. Was it competitive? No. But as someone said, we have to compete against the best to be the best. Clearly, staying at home and beating ourselves hasn't really done much. You can do all the homework you want, but you need a real test to see where you are and how to improve. "Take home tests" don't have the same effect.

                                          I don't want to argue too much about time penalties on xc-- yes, perhaps they could have gone faster, but it seems like the ground was deep and muddy. Sometimes accepting a few time penalties is good horsemanship to get your horse home clear and sound. Even the great Andrew Nicholson didn't make time (and how often does THAT happen?!).

                                          Show jumping today-- Clark had one rail with each horse. The USEF fb page called one of them an "unlucky rail" and noted that fence 2 was coming down a lot. There aren't many clear rounds. Jon Holling jumped well, and had one time fault. Jennie had two rails. All together, it seems about par for the course. Yes, I'd prefer that they all jump clean...but none of them went in and had a many-rail disaster. I'd bet that many horses are tired after the heavy going yesterday.


                                          I think we *do* need more US riders who spend time training in Europe. It did Sinead and Allison a world of good this summer. It would be great if we could budget some funding for that. But it's not just as easy as it sounds-- these riders leave their families and business behind for several months. Someone else has to teach their students, feed the horses at home, ride the youngsters. There's still bills at home to pay, in addition to bills overseas. It requires a strong support group, and a good source of funds to make it happen. I agree that it NEEDS to be done...but it's not so easy as "Hop a plane with your horse and go train with WFP."
                                          “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                                          ? Albert Einstein

                                          ~AJ~

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X