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Build the Perfect Ammie Eventing Horse

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  • Build the Perfect Ammie Eventing Horse

    If you were to mix a perfect blend of breeds to create a hardy amateur eventing horse that has great bone, superior feet, just the right amount of muscle and power, yet decent speed, with a good mind and kind personality, what would you use?

    I'm thinking a horse like Snowman, that ubiquitous grade horse that was used for just about everything back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, the one that had size and strength to work in a field, but was also light enough for riding, and who could and would go all day.

    I'm envisioning no more than a quarter draft, maybe just an eighth -- maybe half thoroughbred and give me a dash of those strong saddlebred legs, or I could see standardbred in there. Maybe mix in a bit of Morgan for their endurance and extremely good feet.

    What would YOU use?
    What's Horsie in the Twin Tiers? Find out here:
    http://thetwintiershorse.blogspot.com/

    Former user name: GilbertsCreeksideAcres

  • #2
    I've seen a few nice ones that were:

    -1/4 draft, 1/4 quarter horse, and 1/2 TB.
    -1/4 draft, 1/4 TB, 1/2 WB
    -1/4 Cleveland Bay, 1/4 quarter horse, 1/2 TB

    Good minds, nice packers at Prelim+.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

    Comment


    • #3
      Mine is the first combination mentioned (1/2 tb, 1/4 qh, 1/4 draft), with clyde being the 1/4 draft, and he's amazing. He totally fits the description that the OP gave ... at 9 years old he's mainly an eventer (at training level), but amazing at foxhunting and trail riding ... he's done the jumpers (3'3), packed a child around the children's hunters, a grandmother in dressage, etc., etc. We were just about ready to start working cows and do training level recognized events a few weeks ago when he sustained a mild high suspensory injury. I'm having a hard time not being able to ride him right now

      Comment


      • #4
        I have a horse who was an incredible Prelim packer, 4' jumper and field hunter. He's as safe and honest as they come.

        He's now 28 years old and very sound. We retired him from competition due to chronic progressive lymphoedema, which is a result of his genetics. Fortunately, we have since found a way to keep that in remission.

        He's mostly TB, with some Belgian and saddlebred mixed in. A true mongrel, and no serious eventer would go look at an ad for a horse of this breeding. He's Belgian-coloured with an odd combination of TB, SB and draft conformation.

        He did not do dressage. Not once, ever. He was incredibly well-schooled; it was simply his choice not to participate in the white-rectangle pageant. But as it was also his choice to always be honest and even generous with his rider, his dressage shortcomings were forgotten before you left the start box. There's nothing quite like going into the box with all the confidence in the world, and that's what he gave you.
        Last edited by JER; Jul. 22, 2012, 12:24 PM.

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        • Original Poster

          #5
          They both sound like fantastic horses, JER and Rainier!
          What's Horsie in the Twin Tiers? Find out here:
          http://thetwintiershorse.blogspot.com/

          Former user name: GilbertsCreeksideAcres

          Comment


          • #6
            Thoroughbred.
            None smarter. None more athletic, trainable, loving a rider no matter what, forgiving, capable. I wouldn't mix anything. I would find a horse already bred for five centuries to perform.
            Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
            Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

            Comment


            • #7
              TB x QH. The athletic qualities of the TB with a little more substance from the QH, and the QH's steady eddy forgiving temperament to handle the need to take the ammie's mistakes calmly.

              Comment


              • #8
                Given the OP's example of IRON LEGS, AWESOME FEET (think big round hooves) and EASY (SAFE/SANE/SOUND), I'm thinking "pure TB" wasn't what she had in mind and it certainly isn't what I'd "dream up" in this whimsical "what if" fun thread.

                Having owned two OTTBs, I'm not sure they are known for their excellent bone, excellent quality of hooves/feet, and easy-keeping/low-maintainance qualities and not alot of them are super quiet-minded. In fact, most TBs I've known or have had are all HIGH-MAINTAINANCE. Not having good/sound-forever type legs, or good hooves/feet, and being harder to keep weight on and sometimes just not as simple to own/ride/manage (some of them being hot, etc) EXCELLENT ATHLETES THOUGH, with a heart of gold, and the most willing and people-pleasing horses out there

                Anyways - OP - I like some of the "mixy-mix" examples folks have given. I truly believe there are other breeds besides TBs, that naturally have a QUIETER MIND, EASIER KEEPERS, can stay BAREFOOT and SOUND with nice big round strong hooves, have GOOD BONE, and can simply just be easy to own, ride, train and manage.

                I think the 1/2 TB idea - with some of the quiet nature of the QH thrown in, and some of the really EXCELLENT bone/hooves/soundness of a hardier breed like some Pony blood or even Morgan or Standarbred (yes - STBs have iron legs and hooves) and maybe some of the mass and again quiet nature of a drop of draft Heck, some of the BEST LEGGED/BEST HOOVED, longest lived and sound horses are actually Andalusians and Lusitanos. Yes - they tend to have really good bone, substance and incredible feet.

                I'm a stickler on good bone and EXCELLENT hooves. Seems noone breeds for "good feet" these days - especially in the TB and QH world.

                Fun thread!

                Originally posted by retreadeventer View Post
                Thoroughbred.
                None smarter. None more athletic, trainable, loving a rider no matter what, forgiving, capable. I wouldn't mix anything. I would find a horse already bred for five centuries to perform.
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                Equine & Pet Portrait Artist
                www.elainehickman.com
                **Morgans Do It All**

                Comment


                • #9
                  I had a QH who would have been a great example. Early 80s halter bred, which meant substantial but before the unathletic takeover came. 16hh tank, great mind but more forward than my TB at the same time. Highest we ever jumped was 4' because I was chicken, but he jumped higher courses with my trainer easily. Could keep going for hours, so he wouldn't have had problems getting tired.

                  Nowadays I think the QH/TB/draft mixes are likely a good one, for the QH mind, TB eagerness, draft hooves and bone. I actually prefer that to the WB/TB cross because I like the QH mind better than the WB spook. This is, of course, a gross generalization, as there are horses of quality I'd be proud to own in most breeds. For warmbloods, I'd say Trakehner with their high amounts of blood but from some of the more agreeable lines. I don't know enough about the ISH bloodlines except that some can be super difficult - but I think the right lines there would be great, too.

                  As a shorty, I think a ranch bred QH can be great, too, especially if it's a place which breeds for great working horses who can go all day and may not register them - because they make smart crosses to non-QH for hardiness and endurance.
                  If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                  -meupatdoes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would love a 1/2 connemara, 1/4 TB, 1/4 QH with the hopes that I would get the stability of the QH personality, hardiness and size of the connemara, and cattiness of the TB. Should be something that is reasonably sized, athletic, but even-tempered enough to take a joke.

                    My two favorite training/prelim eventers that I personally know are TB/Connemaras so I guess that's what influenced my response.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And far better to buy a cross and know what you're getting than try to breed for it. Those varied genetics can pop up for several generations. And you cannot pre-order the combination you want.
                      Don't let anyone tell you that your ideas or dreams are foolish. There is a millionaire walking around who invented the pool noodle.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My first eventer was a breeding stock paint with racing blood. She was tall, had great bone, wonderful feet and an amazing temperament. I'd love to find another one just like her. However, I'm a bit head over heels for TB's, so I think maybe a cross between them would be fantastic.

                        Btw, I LOVE Snowman! I'm reading the book right now and he was a wonderful horse
                        ~Over or Through~

                        A Blog of Percy's Journey!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Fancy That...that is your experience....I've known enough full TBs that had tons of substance and good feet. This is my current mare....she has more than enough substance for me and great feet. Good mover, and powerful jump. She will go to the highest levels of what ever sport I want. And she is an easy keeper too boot. She is also an OTTB.

                          Here she is just starting over fences. May not be a total packer...but she is an ammy ride to me (since I'm an ammy and I ride her )

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_4Gk_KlkZ4

                          I personally don't care for the draft crosses. Too much inconsistency. Good ones can be great, but I've known others that sucked up all the genetics of the draft and didn't have the feet or movement/gallop or jump that I want.

                          My horses that I'm breeding are more WB crosses...but really a mix with a substantial amount of TB blood. Aimed to have the gallop and jump to be great eventers but also capable of doing just about anything.

                          For myself....I'd pick a full TB. They are more often my type and my kind of ride. The "perfect" horse is going to be different for each person.
                          Attached Files
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For a true mongrel, I think that I'd enjoy a part Percheron, part TB, part roping bred QH, and part either saddlebred or Morgan. It would probably look like the kind of mixture that it was.

                            I know that TB/Perch and just TB/draft crosses are well loved by older foxhunters who need steady eddies. I'd add the roping bred QH for agility and the saddlebred or Morgan for dressagey gaits and a bit more uphillness. Even though it looks like a recipe, there are no guarantees, so the horse in front of me would be the deciding factor if the mixture worked or not.

                            Edited to add that I wouldn't mind if the roping bred horse had Appaloosa blood as well as QH.
                            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                            Thread killer Extraordinaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Serious question--why big bone? Is it an aesthetic thing, or durability?

                              (IME I have not found my larger built horses to be sounder, but I have heard that argument so it must be some people's experience.)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                GraceLikeRain, I'm a Connemara fan too. My new filly is 3/4 Connemara, with the rest being mostly warmblood with the teeniest touch of paint.
                                The Connemara part is dressage bred, most of them are bred to jump, the dressage lines still jump like kangaroos, but have more of the type motion they look for in the dressage ring.
                                Time will tell if she's as awesome as I think she'll be, but her breeder has been doing Connemara/warmblood crosses for over 20 years and loves them.

                                I really love TBs, but way too often you run into the spirit being willing but the hooves being weak. Every once in a while you get one like iron and then look out world! It's a shame they're the exception rather then the rule. A good TB cross is GOOD, no, make that GREAT, but like any cross, sometimes it just doesn't click right.

                                I wish I could get the QH of the 70, or even 80s back. Not too long ago you could still get amazing ranch bred ones, but now even those will have some halter blood in them. Sigh.

                                And they may be ratty looking, but just a touch of old-style Appaloosa blood makes for an indestructible horse that will rise to any challenge just because. A lot of my favorite rides have been Appy or crosses. If they like you, I've never ridden a horse that gives more to it's rider. LOL, but when they don't like you, their attitude is famous.

                                When you cross in drafts, some lines have really, amazingly bad feet. Some of the worst hooves I've ever seen have been on drafts. I much prefer drafts of the old-world type, 15 hands and nearly a ton of bone and muscle, then the lighter, leggier, showier ones that are often bred for. It seems the feet are the first thing to go.

                                LOL, so let's see, toss in a touch of old-world Belgian, a touch of Appaloosa, a 1/4 of sound TB and 1/2 Connemara and I think you'd have something perfect. Where's my cauldron?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                  Fancy That...that is your experience....I've known enough full TBs that had tons of substance and good feet. This is my current mare....she has more than enough substance for me and great feet. Good mover, and powerful jump. She will go to the highest levels of what ever sport I want. And she is an easy keeper too boot. She is also an OTTB.

                                  Here she is just starting over fences. May not be a total packer...but she is an ammy ride to me (since I'm an ammy and I ride her )

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_4Gk_KlkZ4

                                  I personally don't care for the draft crosses. Too much inconsistency. Good ones can be great, but I've known others that sucked up all the genetics of the draft and didn't have the feet or movement/gallop or jump that I want.

                                  My horses that I'm breeding are more WB crosses...but really a mix with a substantial amount of TB blood. Aimed to have the gallop and jump to be great eventers but also capable of doing just about anything.

                                  For myself....I'd pick a full TB. They are more often my type and my kind of ride. The "perfect" horse is going to be different for each person.
                                  She is far too pretty! Get in my barn What is her breeding? I'd love one just like her. My OTTB is a skinny little mongrel and I love him. But I'd be perfectly fine having one just like her next
                                  ~Over or Through~

                                  A Blog of Percy's Journey!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by RedxHandedxJill View Post
                                    She is far too pretty! Get in my barn What is her breeding? I'd love one just like her. My OTTB is a skinny little mongrel and I love him. But I'd be perfectly fine having one just like her next
                                    I'm pretty excited about her. Her pedigree is here:

                                    http://www.pedigreequery.com/rockstina

                                    She had only 4 starts but won 2 before her owners got a divorce and had to stop with her---my lucky day.

                                    Her sire has a lot of offspring in this area...several are eventing now. I just saw a 4 year old gelding on the track by him earlier this week that looks a lot like her. Very sweet too...I suspect he will be an easy retraining project. If anyone is looking...I'll give you the contact information. He's too slow so they didn't even bother racing him I'm not involved with him at all...just saw him at the track and know he is for sale.
                                    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
                                      I would love a 1/2 connemara, 1/4 TB, 1/4 QH with the hopes that I would get the stability of the QH personality, hardiness and size of the connemara, and cattiness of the TB. Should be something that is reasonably sized, athletic, but even-tempered enough to take a joke.
                                      The Connemara/TBs that I know (and I own one right now) are not exactly ammy friendly. The Connemaras I've known have been very sensitive, more difficult rides, but they're very athletic and will give you everything if they feel like it and if you ride them properly. Definitely not what I'd breed if I wanted to be sure that the offspring will be simple, though.

                                      Originally posted by Riverotter View Post
                                      And they may be ratty looking, but just a touch of old-style Appaloosa blood makes for an indestructible horse that will rise to any challenge just because. A lot of my favorite rides have been Appy or crosses. If they like you, I've never ridden a horse that gives more to it's rider. LOL, but when they don't like you, their attitude is famous.
                                      I'm surprised more people haven't said Appy. I guess because people don't like what they look like. Appies have so much to offer to eventing, though. If you give them a chance, the breed is surprisingly springy. I own my own full Appy mare. She is 14.1h and was a competitive 1.20m showjumper when I was riding her regularly. She has the best mind ever, is super simple, and will give EVERYTHING she has to please me.
                                      I think she's a pretty special individual, but I also think these traits are innate to the breed. If people could just look past their colour prejudices, they'd see a breed that has so much to offer.
                                      In the mean time, I enjoy being different

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                        Fancy That...that is your experience....I've known enough full TBs that had tons of substance and good feet. This is my current mare....she has more than enough substance for me and great feet. Good mover, and powerful jump. She will go to the highest levels of what ever sport I want. And she is an easy keeper too boot. She is also an OTTB.
                                        I have one of these as well. His only downfall would be his height - he's just a lot taller and bigger than most weekend warrior ammys would want, at ~17.2. Big, honking feet that don't NEED shoes, with big, honking legs atop those feet to support him. For reference, I'm 5'8". He's wearing a 56" (58?) girth and LARGE Woof boots on his front legs.

                                        Kind as can be. Takes a joke. Made his first XC schooling trip look like a snoozefest hunter round, lopes around in a snaffle, has more than enough speed and stride when you want it, but is happy to drop back to a lazy walk as soon as you don't.

                                        I'd go looking for the right brain, and worry about breeding later.

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