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An honest question...

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  • An honest question...

    In the recent past and currently I've been seeing a lot of events, shows, dinners, fundraisers etc.. to raise money for different riders to go to big events.

    These riders are not amateurs, they get paid to ride horses and give lessons and endorse products. Why should I give them (with some riders MORE money than I already give them) money to go to a show. If they are choosing to compete overseas instead of here why should I be asked to contribute?

    I know that no one is holding a gun to my head asking for money but I find it arragont to ask me to front your fun. It honestly turns me off working with certain trainers when I know they have people organize these sort of charities.



    Vent over
    Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to buy a horse

  • #2
    It is about helping these riders get to the top level of our sport... nationally and internationally. It is incredibly expensive.
    Founder & President, Dapplebay, Inc.
    Creative Director, Equestrian Culture Magazine
    Take us to print!

    Comment


    • #3
      It is not "their fun." It is how they promote themselves. It's how they make a name for themselves so they can come back and get more business. It is a way to get the experience they need to have more things to teach you. It's a way to be a better rider to train your horse. It isn't fun shits and giggles. And it is SERIOUSLY expensive. I know several riders who, even with the help of these fund raisers, have maxed out credit cards and gone into quite a bit of debt to make these trips. Riders with thriving businesses at home.

      Besides that, you DO NOT get the type of competition and experience here as you do over there. End of story. We have this discussion on COTH regularly. To be good (really good), you need to go.

      Don't like it. Don't support. Plain and simple. But if you think they are going "just for fun" then you do not realize how expensive this sport is and how hard it can be for a lot of these riders to stay in business, let alone compete to keep themselves out there and bringing in clients.

      I worked for a very good trainer for 9 years who did not have enough horse power and funding. He was very good at what he did, both as an instructor and as a trainer. It was depressing to watch his business die in the last couple of years because he could not even keep enough horse power under him to stay "out there" on the local level, let alone the national. This is brutal business. Sometimes you got ask for some help.

      Now MY vent is over.
      Amanda

      Comment


      • #4
        ^ No kidding. You are fooling yourself if you think that trainers are making the big bucks. Most trainers have no money and they work their asses off every day because they love what they do and wouldn't have it any other way.
        Founder & President, Dapplebay, Inc.
        Creative Director, Equestrian Culture Magazine
        Take us to print!

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, any fund-raising that does not involve feeding the hungry, curing diseases or directly mitigating natural disasters could be considered "arrogant", I guess. You're right--nobody is holding a gun to your head. Just say no if donating is not something you want to do. But fundraising helps lubricate a whole lot of things in the horse economy, some of which even we smurfs benefit from via the trickle-down effect.
          Click here before you buy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Absolutely not required for you to participate or contribute, but you'll miss out on some fun parties, shows, dinners, and other fundraisers before you even miss out on the cool feeling you get when a rider you have some small part in helping gallops across the finish line - or heck, onto the judge at C before they ever get to go jump on purpose.

            Our sport, or my sport, at least, has a cool history of competitors helping each other out, warning each other of slippery spots on course, helping each other assess how best to approach a jump, or warm up in the heat/cold/torrential rains - and helping each other improve.

            Whether or not you believe a rising tide lifts all boats hardly matters. I believe that helping people I like is satisfying, so I try to do it!
            http://wildwoodfarmnc.com

            http://cantersgutenberg.wordpress.co...g-quiet-goose/

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I'm not implying that these riders sit around eating bon bons and riding their horses in Gucci and gold.

              I do wonder though why that rider going to Germany (or wherever) is more deserving than the lady going training? Who is deserving?
              Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to buy a horse

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl View Post

                Our sport, or my sport, at least, has a cool history of competitors helping each other out, warning each other of slippery spots on course, helping each other assess how best to approach a jump, or warm up in the heat/cold/torrential rains - and helping each other improve.

                Whether or not you believe a rising tide lifts all boats hardly matters. I believe that helping people I like is satisfying, so I try to do it!
                The things you've mentioned are very different than asking for money and to me great things!!

                And for the record I have NEVER seen the person or people I am thinking of volunteering, hosting clinic for pony club or any other type of giving back with out a pay back
                Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to buy a horse

                Comment


                • #9
                  OP - I understand where your question comes from and I don't think its necessarily a place of nastiness. We all have different "causes" to which we feel compelled to give. People who are incredibly passionate about this sport and about preserving and fostering our nation's ability to compete legitimately at the top of it might be compelled to give to the causes you mention. Others might not.

                  I have a number of friends who are "fundraising" for upper level riding purposes - whether it be for a specific trip to England or by syndicating a horse. That is there perrogative and as their friend I am immensely supportive on an emotional level. But at this point in my life (having just graduated from law school, paying THOUSANDS of dollars this summer to study for the bar and being without a job) I am not in a position to give substantially. Whether I would if I could is another story and I can't say I'm sure if I would give.

                  Philanthropy is a very personal thing. How and to what people choose to give is their business. In addition, some of these "fundraisers" are really more of a quid-pro-quo endeavor. For example, the person doing the donating is the person giving a free item for the silent auction or the facility taking little or no fee for use for a clinic or show. The people who "give" by purchasing or participating are "getting" something in return.

                  But in the end it comes down to what you feel is the appropriate use of your hard-earned money. Funding upper level eventing may not be it and I full respect that. But we wouldn't have an Olympic team if people had not stepped up to fund those partnerships.
                  "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals" Immanuel Kant

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    And in regards to your vent yellow britches , if a person is running a BUSINESS ( you said its not "just fun") is it our fault the business is not successful ?

                    I know it's expensive, so is any small business but unless they are a 501c you don't see BUSINESSES asking for handouts.

                    So is it fun or business?
                    Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to buy a horse

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Thank you VR, I'm not angry at these riders, some I feel are MORE than deserving so I do give and donate.. It's just a question
                      Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to buy a horse

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My point is I'm not donating generally to random Joe/Jane Doe, nor are they asking me to. I have donated/bid on items to benefit riders who I see regularly at competitions, who I had had lessons from or would like to get lessons from, and/or who I've seen around teaching the pony clubbers or letting strays tag along on course walks. For me, it is a community activity, and I certainly am not a major funder, but I'm happy to tack on some "community support" money in addition to my Southern Poverty Law Center & Doctors without Borders donations. YMMV, and that's fine!
                        http://wildwoodfarmnc.com

                        http://cantersgutenberg.wordpress.co...g-quiet-goose/

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl View Post
                          My point is I'm not donating generally to random Joe/Jane Doe, nor are they asking me to. I have donated/bid on items to benefit riders who I see regularly at competitions, who I had had lessons from or would like to get lessons from, and/or who I've seen around teaching the pony clubbers or letting strays tag along on course walks. For me, it is a community activity, and I certainly am not a major funder, but I'm happy to tack on some "community support" money in addition to my Southern Poverty Law Center & Doctors without Borders donations. YMMV, and that's fine!
                          I understand and agree
                          Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to buy a horse

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Businesses can be successful in the terms that they can pay their staff, their rent or mortgage, and feed themselves, but not afford the costs to ship their horse, their groom, and themselves overseas to compete, lose the teaching income while they are away, etc. Hence, they turn to a usually supportive community to help them fund their way across the pond.

                            It is no one's fault. And no one is holding YOU at gun point to pay some amount to help them. But there are plenty of people who are willing and able to give/participate/buy/whatever.

                            As for the "fun" aspect...well, I will share the story my former boss has told about having fun with his job. He once had a client who had their daughter's horse in training with him. He rode and competed the horse, and won with it. He sent the dad a bill for his services as rider/trainer/coach, and the dad refused to pay, because the trainer had "fun" on his daughter's horse (by winning and getting to compete and what not). My former boss asked the man if he enjoyed his job. If it was fun (I believe the man was stock broker or something). "Oh yes!" he said. "I love it!"

                            "Would you do it for free?"

                            "No! I earn every penny!"

                            "Exactly. I love my job, too, but I earn every penny on that bill."

                            So, basically because someone runs a business, they shouldn't have fun doing it????
                            Amanda

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here's my take on the whole thing:

                              There are some very UL riders in my area who have done a ton of really nice things for people in my area. Giving clinics, being willing to teach at all levels at affordable prices even to people just starting out in the show world (think training level dressage or 2' jumping or less) in spite of a very busy schedule with regular clients. Some of these folks aren't independently wealthy, so in other words, they don't have the funds to buy the right type of horse or ship themselves overseas for a European campaign. Those are the types I'd be happy to support if they threw a fundraiser.


                              There are also some UL riders in my area who have done fundraising for themselves, but you don't see them making much of an attempt to reach out to the community for anything other than money. I don't have much patience for those types - the kind who operate in their own little world and only come out of it and into yours when they need something.

                              It's analagous in some ways to a server who makes an effort to ensure you have a lovely evening at their restaurant vs. one who is just out to flit from customer to customer as quickly as possible in the hopes of getting more tips

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I'm in a similar place to vicariousrider - have a year left in law school, and while I have a summer job that I think/hope will turn out to be a wonderful long term position, it's soooo far from guaranteed (and I'll have absurd student loans to pay off!). I also ride in an area with a concentration of ULRs, and there are plenty of fundraisers around here (and I know some of the Unionville crowd as well). I'm really not terribly offended by the fundraisers, as most of them are like $75ish - pretty inexpensive for a night out in this area (I think I generally spend more than the ticket price for most when I've gone out with my trainer... and that's not cause I'm sponsoring, haha. I definitely spend more on law school functions). If they were $500 or your first born child a ticket (i.e enough to cut into MY riding budget), I'd feel a bit differently, but at the price they generally are, meh, whatever. It's the sort of sport that the more you make/success you have, the more you spend, and I don't begrudge those that are trying to compete overseas and whathaveyou for trying to make it a little more doable. If you can't afford, or think the rider is loaded and absconding with your money to the mall, then don't go. And I agree with snicklefritzg, that the riders should be willing to do something for the community at large.

                                I will admit I heard someone grumble about going to one do - that it was fundraising to send a rider's trust fund to Europe - and thought that was pretty funny.

                                The one thing that does bug me - it seems to be an expectation that other riders and their grooms/working students attend these things. Which is fine, and the other riders can pay - but the grooms/ws should get free or reduced admission. Not fair to essentially expect (and I suspect it's not a conscious thing, just a lack of thought) someone - who makes below minimum wage and probably lives hand to mouth - to pay to support you doing what they probably wish they could but are too poor to. Everyone else is free to decline attending due to finances (or organizing their sock drawer) - but the grooms/ws end up stuck paying to attend something they can't afford, which isn't right.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Money and intent

                                  From where I sit, the person "going to Germany" is almost always going to get my money because they will hopefully represent the United States in serious international competition and I like to see us do well. Going training is not as expensive as say going over seas and doesn't require the support.

                                  On the flip side, I would also support a Pony Club effort to send a group of kids to Europe, but that is also a big time expense and involves riders who are looking at some day making a living out of our sport. I think it isn't about UL riders all the time, as much as it is the intent of the rider, at least for me it is.
                                  RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

                                  "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by RenaissanceMare View Post
                                    I do wonder though why that rider going to Germany (or wherever) is more deserving than the lady going training? Who is deserving?
                                    Because the rider going to Germany is better, and has probably put in way more time and effort to reach that level (I know, I know, not in every case, but most do make impressive sacrifices to reach the top of the sport). Even regardless of effort involved, I think someone with a pure skill/talent level higher than someone else deserves more support.

                                    Originally posted by RenaissanceMare View Post
                                    And for the record I have NEVER seen the person or people I am thinking of volunteering, hosting clinic for pony club or any other type of giving back with out a pay back
                                    Perhaps because they are too busy running their business? Riding 5 horses at an event and coaching 15 students doesn't leave much time for volunteering, but I would bet they have done it at some point in their lives.

                                    Personally, I prefer not to ask for other people's charity, which is one reason why I opted out of trying for the YR 2* team. I sell horses/train so I can afford to show. That said, I would not be adverse to one day forming a syndicate for a quality UL horse. And if I had qualified for a big overseas event and just needed a bit extra to pay for the trip over etc, who knows?

                                    For example, the Dutch coach for WEG in '06 convinced a businessman to put up most of the money to pay for the US based Dutch rider to fly over to Aachen. He still needed a bit more, so the rider held a fundraiser at his base in the states, the businessman doubled the amount raised, and off to Germany he went.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I totally agree about being more willing to donate to someone so they can get more knowledge and experience, if they make a reciprocal effort to give of their time and knoweldge -- be it pony club, or reduced rate lessons to anyone who contributes.

                                      These upper level riders are busy, but if they are not too busy to attend fundraisers, then they should not be too busy to, say, once a month, give back to the community which supports them. (And I am not talking about teaching pony club in the spring and fall, which are their competition times. I am talking about taking time in their less busy months).

                                      What goes around, comes around.

                                      "We" have something they want: money. They have something we want: expertise. It should be a 2 way street.
                                      "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                                      Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
                                        Here's my take on the whole thing:

                                        There are some very UL riders in my area who have done a ton of really nice things for people in my area. Giving clinics, being willing to teach at all levels at affordable prices even to people just starting out in the show world (think training level dressage or 2' jumping or less) in spite of a very busy schedule with regular clients. Some of these folks aren't independently wealthy, so in other words, they don't have the funds to buy the right type of horse or ship themselves overseas for a European campaign. Those are the types I'd be happy to support if they threw a fundraiser.

                                        And were they doing that because they wanted to or because they are required to do so by the NGB?

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