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Slow the Pony the Heck Down

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  • Slow the Pony the Heck Down

    http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/th...NAME=snapfish/

    Ignor the appy - the other horse is a 14.1 pony I ride that gobbles up 3 foot XC fences. But in the arena he is a BULLET. If I do dressage for a week, his dressage is passable (I have to constantly remind him to just relax and sit back as the way his mind is wired - he wants to boogie all the time). But once I start jumping - he is so quick. Most people cant ride him - he is like a shot from a gun. I was in jeans - it was a HOT day and I was just doing barn work and decided to ride and someone took pictures so sorry for the clothes! I am riding defensively - there is like a half second from 9 feet from before the fence to 9 feet after. It seems like. I have video of me on other horses and this pony is SO FAST. The other videos seem in slow motion if I watch them next to each other!

    I do gymnastics with him - he is JUST AS QUICK through it all. And doesnt knock things down.

    What do you suggest to get him to slow-the-heck-down? Is it just HIM and I just have to take the greatness that he makes it over EVERYTHING even the 3 foot plus fences (probably can go much higher but I just am like - most people cant RIDE this horse's speed - I stay with him but its like I have no time to actually THINK so I worry about going higher than 3 foot XC.)

    Anyone with a QUICK pony like this and what work do you do to get them to rate themselves some? He is better XC. Like I take him XC more than in the arena, he is SO FREAKING FAST in the arena over jumps EVEN gymnastics.
  • Original Poster

    #2
    AND FYI the yellow and white fence - is a 3 foot oxer - it is a weird angle. Taken from on top another horse. The blurry most one is the last one on a gymnastic - it is like 2'3" maybe - and the XC fence is about 2'6. I know he can jump higher but he is so QUICK I worry about the fact I dont feel I can THINK fast enough to help him if needed. I am just staying with him and trusting him.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would love to look at the pics but it seems like I would have to register just to view them. Maybe host them on a site where its free to look?

      As to the slowing down. I have re trained some serious rushers. Can you trot a fence? Is he fast AND tense, or just fast?

      I had one very strong and tense TB gelding that could jump the moon. We would set up a small jump just outside of a 15-20 metre circle. Work on soft calm trot, aim at the jump, if he sped up just go to the inside and pretend you never meant it. If he would maintain that nice soft trot let him go over.

      Hauling him up to a stop only wound him higher so we would just calmly circle at the canter on landing and just wait till he was ready to listen. No constant asking (as that teaches them to ignore, never ask when you know the horse won't answer) That first time I think the rider sat in half seat cantering around for 20 min before he relaxed and she gave him a little half halt and he slipped into a lovely trot. The next time was 19 min, then 18, then he quickly learnt he got nothing out of being quick.. We had to redo it over a variety of fence styles and it took about 3 months but he went from years long history of fast, flat and rushed to a calm round ride.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Which site gives it free to look? Snapfish is free. You just have to register I GUESS - I thought I could just send a link. I did a search and everything that comes up is just like Snapfish - where would a good site be to upload photos everyone can look at?

        Comment


        • #5
          Flicker.. photobucket. Seems snapfish while free requires registering sadly.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LaraNSpeedy View Post
            Which site gives it free to look? Snapfish is free. You just have to register I GUESS - I thought I could just send a link. I did a search and everything that comes up is just like Snapfish - where would a good site be to upload photos everyone can look at?
            Try Photobucket

            Comment


            • #7
              HunnyBunches is like this. Scares the poop out of me XC ... and she's barely 13hh ! I have her in a honking great bit, and nothing really helps. Maybe a total change of tactic ? At the moment, HunnyBunches is learning a new trick - it's called 'Woah whateva'. Whatever we are doing, if anything goes 'wrong' she's to stop. So we do lots of walking around, and i pretend to lose my balance and she halts. We trot, I pretend to fall off and she stops. She's got this. I haven't worked up to leaping off at a canter yet. it's a change of tactic for her. Now where we do our arena 'workout' which has changed from schooling her to me sitting up there loose reins, flapping like an up-down kid, expecting her to just keep on trotting til we're bored to tears, I can feel her half hesitate every step, wondering if this is the one I wobble off at without notice. It's changed how she's thinking, from ' I've gotta go fast and get this done' to 'oh heck, do I have to stop now ? what now ? How about now ?'

              We will try jumping her later in the week, only over tiny things, and see if I can still stop her by losing my balance or falling off.

              She has a small child wanting to come and see her, as an endurance pony, so I need the automatic stop and wait in her anyway, but as an exercise, it's having a very nice side-effect of changing her mindset from constant 'go'.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Good luck with the girl coming! Ponies are too smart I think!

                This pony I have is SO GOOD at XC - he has no stop at all. He will curl his ears in, lift his head and canter in place a few steps when he looks at something but a kick forward and he jumps it. And in general, he turns (no bully with the shoulder at all), stops (when I ask for walk) and doesnt get TOO fast XC because he respects the ground. He CAN get a little fast but my problem is IN THE ARENA.

                STADIUM - in the arena, everything is WILD MONKEY ON THE LOOSE. His canter BUILDS.

                And I hate feeling like I am on his mouth. I do gymnastics, changes in direction, raising the height of some fences, circles, etc. I have this one double that is a snug 3 stride. The 15.1 eventer mare loves the distance. The 15.3-16.2 horses are ok with it if the riders ride it right. THIS PONY can do it in a COMFORTABLE 2 strides - he is the only horse that can. He is 14.1. Its because every stride is carried along in the air - it is like he is literally FLYING as he canters.

                DRESSAGE - if I do that for a week every day - I can MANAGE him through a dressage test - every stride I have to remind him through telepathy to not go faster next step. He will settle in at the trot with a lot of stretchy and bendy warmup. I can get him to canter with some loop in the rein if I do canter loops because the counter canter is like HELLO MOM, THAT IS HARD. But once I jump ONE JUMP in the arena, all is lost and its like - I need to do a lot of dressage work again.

                I am off to look at Photobucket.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  http://s1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/SpeedyLara/

                  OK try this link!

                  Background on the pictures:
                  One is over a 2'6"ish purple coop cross country.
                  The yellow and white pole oxer is set at 3 feet - no exaggeration - just the photo was taken by someone sitting on top of a 16 hand horse. The higher the jump - it doesnt slow him at all - feels like FLYING.
                  The smaller vertical is at the end of a gymnastic - he is not slower but I am able to find a better position personally! In the pictures over the oxer, I am terrible. I am just trying to stay with him and am not pulling on him but have a FEEL because I have tried a mix of letting go more and he runs over the fences more if I do. I just try to make sure I dont bang him - but keep a feel. Look at his expression - this is not a horse that is unhappy - he THINKS he is supposed to go really fast and thinks its fun.

                  AND I WANT HIM TO FIGURE OUT that he is going to be more successful if he just brings it all down a notch. And I will be able to ride him better if he does.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    That XC jump is pretty small compared to what we have done this year - but I am afraid to go higher than 3 foot until he stops running/flying his fences.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LaraNSpeedy View Post
                      http://s1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/SpeedyLara/

                      OK try this link!

                      Background on the pictures:
                      One is over a 2'6"ish purple coop cross country.
                      The yellow and white pole oxer is set at 3 feet - no exaggeration - just the photo was taken by someone sitting on top of a 16 hand horse. The higher the jump - it doesnt slow him at all - feels like FLYING.
                      The smaller vertical is at the end of a gymnastic - he is not slower but I am able to find a better position personally! In the pictures over the oxer, I am terrible. I am just trying to stay with him and am not pulling on him but have a FEEL because I have tried a mix of letting go more and he runs over the fences more if I do. I just try to make sure I dont bang him - but keep a feel. Look at his expression - this is not a horse that is unhappy - he THINKS he is supposed to go really fast and thinks its fun.

                      AND I WANT HIM TO FIGURE OUT that he is going to be more successful if he just brings it all down a notch. And I will be able to ride him better if he does.
                      Do you have a video? It might be easier for us to tell what's actually going on, since the photo's don't show anything IMO
                      Life is short, ride the best horse first.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        True - The video I have I am transitioning him to trot and doing circles etc. I will have someone vid me over two lines or more in the canter so I can show what he does.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          this might sounds nuts, but I had someone once take a pocket full of treats out at a jump school. Pony jumped, pony woahed, pony got a treat. After about 15 reps, she had to put her leg on the pony to keep pony moving. We kept doing it, and then we replaced everything with a good boy, and occasional treat. I am always willing to look outside of the box with ponies.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Often horses that are speedy benefit from learning to go on a loose rein. The riders often benefit too!

                            The horse needs to carry itself, and not speed up unless asked. The rider may need to re-train themselves not to lean on the mouth, and not to panic in the last couple of strides and just allow the horse to do whatever it's going to do.

                            I am talking loopy rein - can he trot a circle without speeding up? Can you give a half-halt then immediately go back to a loopy rein? Repeat at the canter, in 2-point. With green horses it often goes 4-5 strides, lose balance or speed up, half-halt, 4-5 strides, repeat.

                            With confirmed pullers/speedy horses, it will probably take a bit longer.

                            Put a neck strap on and force yourself to keep your hands on it and not bother his mouth.

                            Then you can try the exercise above with the quiet pace circling near a fence until he is listening and doesn't rush.

                            This may not be your problem, but if it is, this will help. Most riders are amazed that their horses will actually slow down and add strides once they have a looser rein.

                            Another exercise to try is the jump-land-turn. You need several jumps near each other so you can surprise your horse by turning a different way immediately after each jump and go for the next one. Use the reins for turning only, not slowing down - after a while your horse will set itself back on its haunches as it needs to balance for the turns.
                            Blugal

                            You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              What I am usually yelled at when I take lessons is to shorten my reins. I have been retraining exracers for a lot of years and learned early to not hold. So I dont think that is it.

                              He is the energizer bunny and when he walks on the trail, he is 4x faster at the walk - bad enough it gives me a stomach ache sometimes! He is just WIRED. And I have never ridden a TB this wired.

                              So I have spent the 2 years since I started him doing dressage mainly. Because I am all about FLAT work. And IF I ride him almost every day and spend at LEAST an hour or TWO doing stretchy, long and low bendy serpentines and figure eights and spiral circles and shoulder in and leg yields, canter loops, counter canter and transitions. He is PASSABLE in a dressage test. But I jump ONE JUMP and he is like YAFREAKINGHOO. And forget dressage for a while.....

                              I took him to Tami Crawford once and Jenni Hogan for a lesson and both were like - "wow, what a cute mover! He needs to slow his butt down."

                              For a long time I went with the old adage that he was out of balance. But truth is - he CAN balance - he just is WIRED to GO. So on the one hand I have this horse that I have trained to do what I need him to do but he is WIRED to think he has to GO GO GO faster all the time. SO I thought - instead of focusing on dressage so much - I thought maybe focus on jumping in the arena where he is his worse.

                              Thus why I posted. The jumping turn thing could be helpful though - he jumps and goes and twice yesterday I had to turn him hard because he thought we were going one direction when I was planning the other. I gave him all the cues correctly but he already had it in his head so he had to do flying lead changes and when he does those, it really slows him down as he does them back to front and its almost like someone smacked him on the face in his brain.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                What kind of bit is he in?
                                http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Video.We need video. Is he going fast, or does it just seem fast because he is not under your control? Can you free jump him? Does he speed then?
                                  As someone mentioned earlier, the stills don't show anything...
                                  madeline
                                  * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    I will get some video of him probably THURSDAY jumping - I am trailering him out to a dressage lesson tomorrow. When I free jump him in the round pen he doesnt speed up but when he is in the arena, he does. So the more space, the more he opens up.

                                    The trainer I work with when I have time to get to her thinks he has a canter issue - like he needs to engage better and we need to develop his canter - change his canter which I agree. But we also both agree that his brain THINKs go go go - like when on a trail ride - he is the fastest walker - like I have to circle him a lot. And if I take him on a hack alone - his walk can give me a stomache ache! On a loose rein on a hack - its like everything is moving as fast as he can in the walk. I read the articles on the cardiac attacks and I immediately think of him.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      without a video some things I see in the pictures (and yes, he is a very cool looking pony.)

                                      He's jumping very flat and a long which does suggest fast. This suggests several things. Before anything make sure there is no hock problem or stifle that is weak. Horses sometimes compensate fast to cover up the weak stifles, other subtle pain issues or muscle imbalances. This is a possibility. .

                                      So assuming he's absolutely fine and has good back end strength.

                                      he needs to work on How he jumps and not just the speed of the jumps. He already knows a way to solve his height but it involves speed. IF he can learn to go more round, he can then feel an ability to go slower.

                                      One set of exercises:
                                      two fences that are medium cross rails set on one end of the ring on each of the diagonals. Use cross rails so he needs keep his body straight and can't twist but the middle of the fence isn't big. In front and in back of each fence roll a placement poll that he has to reach over to take off and then land within. Trot a circle at the end where the fences are on the diagonal. Include changes through the circle that use the centerline and are headed towards the closest short end of the arena. Once he doesn't rush or tense going past the fences, do the same on the other end of the ring away from the fences. switch back to fence end, then back to away end. So now you have, gee I'm not going to jump, I'm doing turns that are 10 meter and staying relaxed, I'm ready to slip in a jump type of pony.

                                      Start doing the diagonals (cutting short the approach is probably smart) with a fence facing into the wall (helps back them off.) placement poles that help him learn to jump more properly instead of "leaping" and a turn to re-balance him before another diagonal jump. Any time he rushes, you don't jump and just do a "change through the circle" turn and go back to the flat exercise. Whatever you do, he must NEVER jump when he's going fast. Every time you do reinforces the speed.

                                      If you repeat it , calmly and very matter of fact only allowing him to jump when he's relaxed, they often do start to "get it"

                                      there's a whole lot exercises out there that will help but I would definitely work on the how he's jumping in addition to the speed of the jumping. They're intertwined.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by flashwhitelock View Post
                                        without a video some things I see in the pictures (and yes, he is a very cool looking pony.)

                                        He's jumping very flat and a long which does suggest fast. This suggests several things. Before anything make sure there is no hock problem or stifle that is weak. Horses sometimes compensate fast to cover up the weak stifles, other subtle pain issues or muscle imbalances. This is a possibility. .
                                        This is what happened with mine. She was insanely fast and it turned out she had a chronically inflamed LH suspensory, arthritis in her hocks, and some SI issues as well! So some of that may have been her trying to outrun her pain.

                                        She didn't jump at all for a few years, had surgery for the suspensory and was rehabbed, etc. We've just started jumping again -- tiny crossrails which is all we're cleared to do -- and while she's very keen, she no longer feels out of control, I can halt her easily after a jump, she's adjustable etc.
                                        You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                        1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

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