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Training Grants

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  • Training Grants

    Okay, so.....

    WOW. Colleen, sorry. REALLY sorry. I think we need to revamp this just a bit. I think, A: base it at least partially on need. There are people on this list, who frankly, don't need the money that has been donated to get all the help they need. Some are already getting it anyway.

    B: We need some sorta point system. How can we give it to someone who really isn't all that proven, nothing personal against those people, more power to them, and pass by those who have proven themselves?

    It's very irritating....seeing politics in play here. It really feels like that is what most of it is.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com

  • #2
    ????

    how do they decide who gets them? is it only the olympic potentials who get them? i ask because some of these people don't really need the grants do they? ie...will coleman,,,phillip dutton, the o'conners.....

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I don't mind that we give our Olympic hopefuls grants. Really. I think the part that bothers me is this:

      There are people on that list that have sponsors, mega sponsors, owners, mega owners. They have thier own money. Every year, when we do our membership renewals, they ask for funds to be donated. I am not rich, and we survive by doing a LOT on our own. But, I donate a bit. It won't be a tax write-off. It's just to help do a bit for our team.

      But it irks me, I think people, corporations donate to HELP those who can't get there without help. There are names that are on that list, that have PLENTY of help, and people left off, that maybe, with help, would do a great job....We need to spread out and give to LOTS of people. Not an elite few, who probably don't need it. I feel like my donation is a donation to the rich. I won't donate again. Period.
      May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
      www.mmceventing.com

      Comment


      • #4
        what she said

        Comment


        • #5
          A little Clarity

          What is this training grant for? When I read the short blurb on the USEA site it talks about high performance, US Eventing team folks training for the Olympics and those folks I know fit the bill and are on the list.

          Now maybe some of these folks are getting sponsor money and such, but they still have to work for it, they still have to do clinics, they still have to train people to make money and that takes away from their time and ability to train themselves for the Olympics. Were someone to hand me $$$ to train for a big show so I would not have to work, even though I make good $$$ I'd say thank you and start training.

          If this helps those on that list do better so Team USA is well represented at the Olympics, I only ask that they truly make the grant worth it and make us proud when they ride in England.

          (Now about that grant money for up and comers in the over 50 class, ready to break out into the big world...I'm ready)

          Comment


          • #6
            what gold 2012 said....

            Unless you have the power to be on the high performance list, you aren't considered to be eligible for this round of travel grants. After hearing what folks have to do in terms of shutting down their personal businesses in order to try to make a team in this country...don't know that I would advise it. Ride and show and enjoy your horses at every level and let the power/money mongers have their own club..soon enough they won't have anybody to play with but themselves! The FEI took away the soul of our sport when the long format was deleted so play where you want and don't mortgage your soul to the USEF. I think your chances of being helped by the grants are only slightly better then winning the lottery. Find your own path and holler "heads up" when someone or something becomes an obstacle in your way. Eyes up,chin tucked and kick on. That is still free!

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I know that they give up a lot of business....I guess. I am not as sure about that as you guys are. I don't see it down here. BUT, who knows, maybe. I just know that several of those people have more then just a "little" sponsorship.

              It bother's me that others are left OFF the list. My daughter took one lesson with a REALLY BIG name dressage person. Her dressage ability, from one simple exercise, doubled. Not an exageration. It was the first time she had been told to do that. And she has had a sampling of quite a few of the big name people, to illustrate how access and money can help someone. Those people, on that list, get those lessons frequently. Not one time, not once in a while. There are people not on that list, with maybe just a bit more access to the top names, a bit more money, might go and win gold for us.

              Our system is broken. And I agree, when they did away with the long format, it made it much easier to do it with money. Not always a bad thing, but not a good thing either. I am not entirely sure we are sending our best, or have...for a long time.
              May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
              www.mmceventing.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Agreed. 90%, not a few people on this list, are VERY well off financially, and really don't need the grants. As we all know, a lot of this money will be used on dressage and show jumping lessons with pros in those disciplines. I realize that funding will only be provided to those who have Olympic potential, but what about those with potential that are broke? I won't say any names on either side, but I really do hope that the grant process for the rest of the season is better than, and plays less favorites than this.... What irks me more than anything is that one combination on this list has yet to even run a horse trial much less a qualifier for the Olympics....

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you are responsible for putting together a team that is to represent the United States, in international competition, and someone gives you a potful of money to help get your team candidates get BETTER so you can put up a useful showing (let alone MEDAL), then what do you do?

                  You sit down, go over the list of candidates, and see what you have. You know that your potential team riders have holes in their preparation. You've seen it -- everyone has seen it. There are some old riders with new horses that no one has any idea will work out and there are new young riders with great horses that look pretty good. There are a lot of others -- not so good at the dressage but fabulous jumpers. There are some that can be counted on to impress the judges but you have real questions about whether they can make it around London's XC course. And always, at the end of it, soundness. What horses coming out of what barns stay sound? What horses won't last?

                  You put all of these concerns into a Pandora's Box and come up with a list. You take the most likely candidates and try to make them more of a sure thing with those grants. It's not about whose rich and has sponsors. It's about the future, the team, the likelihood of medals for our country. You are looking into a crystal ball and doing the best you can for America. You know that other countries that we are competing against have government funding. They don't rely on donations and don't have to explain anything.

                  How does anyone possibly get to criticize this process until you've taken a really hard look at the other side?

                  I'm jealous too about the money and sponsors and expensive horses. Who would not be on this board?

                  But that is misplaced concern. Complaining about the training grants is not going to get my country a good showing and possibly a medal at the Olympics. The sponsors and funding follow the good riders because they are good enough; the grant money does the same. We are making the best we have better so that we can compete favorably; it's not about spreading it around in some sort of "fairness" policy.
                  Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                  Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    I am sorry, retread, but I respectfully disagree. I agree that, the funds are to be used to better our team. I disagree, perhaps because I don't understand, with the people they chose to give it to.

                    These funds are to be used for OLYMPIC TEAM RIDERS. Got that, check. BUT....

                    First, these funds are being spent on teams that do not have a record together. I am sure, maybe they will eventually get there, but for now, it's anyone's guess if they will, or if they won't.

                    Second, exactly what has CR done to be excluded? Horse isn't sound enough? I know some of these horses, and guess what, half of them have a few soundness issues.

                    Tnird, if someone has the ability to go purchase 6, SIX, upper level event horses, pay for them to be shipped to the US, put in quarentine, SHOW them...they probably have the funds to ship a horse anywhere in the world they want to go for a show, pay for that show, and are already training with the tops in the world now...

                    I was told by someone in the selection process...they look for people who can mostly fund thier own way. OKay, I can understand the reasoning there. It's pretty expensive to get there....BUT, use funds, that companies give, and use it responsibly. I disagree that this is responsible. Each person on that list has something to bring the table....got it...BUT several of them have resources outside mere mortals....lets use some of that money on pairs that ARE competing, DOING well, and could very well GIVE us that gold, ESPECIALLY if they had some of these funds, and opportunities.


                    I want a good showing at the olympics too. I get that this money is for the olympic team. I really do. HOWEVER, there are some people that have been left OFF this list, that SHOULD be on it.
                    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                    www.mmceventing.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Who ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Guys, it's $2k per rider. That's not going to make or break it for anyone on this list.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by CiegoStar View Post
                          Guys, it's $2k per rider. That's not going to make or break it for anyone on this list.
                          I wondered how much it was. WOW, so, even though I don't agree with all these people getting it, I must say, it sure is a drop in the proverbial bucket. But it is something anyway.

                          You know, things like this make me wonder this.

                          If this process was more open, and fair, I would wonder if it wouldn't HELP fund this team better. I dont think I am alone in not wanting to donate more, if it is just going to go to people who already have tons of available funds.

                          We recently got a grant from a wonderful woman, and it REALLY helps. On the whole year scheme of things, it will actually make it possible to get lessons. I suspect that 2k, while a drop in a bucket, would really help Colleen, or Nate, or any of the others, that with a bit more help, might make a better showing.
                          May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                          www.mmceventing.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good Point

                            It would be difficult to donate money to a system that makes grants available to people in ways that seem unfair.

                            And many people donating a bit can and would make a difference. Isn't there an organization that you can donate in a rider's name? If so, maybe we should give to those we find more deserving. If it truly 'is' about having resources available to 'make a better showing'. But, somehow, I'm not sure it isn't more political than that....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sunnycher View Post
                              It would be difficult to donate money to a system that makes grants available to people in ways that seem unfair.

                              And many people donating a bit can and would make a difference. Isn't there an organization that you can donate in a rider's name? If so, maybe we should give to those we find more deserving. If it truly 'is' about having resources available to 'make a better showing'. But, somehow, I'm not sure it isn't more political than that....
                              Check out the American Horse Trials Foundation. While they can't earmark money for a specific rider, if you know a rider on their list call and ask them for more information on how your donation can make a difference for them.
                              Balanced Care Equine

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by retreadeventer View Post
                                If you are responsible for putting together a team that is to represent the United States, in international competition, and someone gives you a potful of money to help get your team candidates get BETTER so you can put up a useful showing (let alone MEDAL), then what do you do?

                                You sit down, go over the list of candidates, and see what you have. You know that your potential team riders have holes in their preparation. You've seen it -- everyone has seen it. There are some old riders with new horses that no one has any idea will work out and there are new young riders with great horses that look pretty good. There are a lot of others -- not so good at the dressage but fabulous jumpers. There are some that can be counted on to impress the judges but you have real questions about whether they can make it around London's XC course. And always, at the end of it, soundness. What horses coming out of what barns stay sound? What horses won't last?

                                You put all of these concerns into a Pandora's Box and come up with a list. You take the most likely candidates and try to make them more of a sure thing with those grants. It's not about whose rich and has sponsors. It's about the future, the team, the likelihood of medals for our country. You are looking into a crystal ball and doing the best you can for America. You know that other countries that we are competing against have government funding. They don't rely on donations and don't have to explain anything.

                                How does anyone possibly get to criticize this process until you've taken a really hard look at the other side?

                                I'm jealous too about the money and sponsors and expensive horses. Who would not be on this board?

                                But that is misplaced concern. Complaining about the training grants is not going to get my country a good showing and possibly a medal at the Olympics. The sponsors and funding follow the good riders because they are good enough; the grant money does the same. We are making the best we have better so that we can compete favorably; it's not about spreading it around in some sort of "fairness" policy.
                                Well said.

                                And Gold, what exactly are you mad about (or are you just mad)? That your preferred riders are not on the list, that some folks on the list are "too rich", that your donation didn't go where you wanted, or that riders with big corporate sponsors should be cut off from any additional help?

                                Sorry, but this topic has been beaten beyond recognition.
                                Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                                The Grove at Five Points

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  How one deals with all this is a purely personal issue. I enjoyed donating to Colleen's Badminton fund through the AHTF and attaching a note explaining what I had done to the USET donation request and sending it back to them. Not a hell of a lot of money, but every dollar helps - and to paraphrase the commercial, "satisfaction from screwing with the system - priceless!"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Took a clinic with Jimmy Wofford last weekend. In the coffee talk, someone asked his thoughts on Colleen, his student. He said the horse was "unconventional" (his word not mine) and that's why the selectors don't like him.

                                    However, Jimmy was obviously beyond excited that he got to see the horse for their upcoming Wednesday morning lesson. It was pretty awesome to see a coach of his caliber be SOO excited about teaching a lesson.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by gold2012 View Post
                                      There are people on this list, who frankly, don't need the money that has been donated to get all the help they need. Some are already getting it anyway.
                                      I find this offensive. Assuming you know the personal balance sheet of people or their private financial arrangements with sponsors is really over the top. Last I check no one gets rich being a professional rider. The truth is people like Dutton, Martin and even the O'Connors are in all likelihood middle of the road in terms a real income and personal wealth. Do they have wealthy sponsors? Sure. But they HAVE sponsors in the first place because they have proven they can get results for them. The USET has to be results oriented or they won't be able to fundraise. It's the very fact they have ignored Colleen Rutledge's results that has people so mad! Personally I think that all lists and grants should be merit based and only the actual selection of the team should be subjective.

                                      gold2012 it's an expensive sport, people with access to money will always have an advantage--that's true for just about any sport in existence. You really need to accept it and get over it. If you want to play, suck it up and play, but stop whining about it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by subk View Post
                                        The truth is people like Dutton, Martin and even the O'Connors are in all likelihood middle of the road in terms a real income and personal wealth.
                                        Not to mention they work their @sses off all day, every day. No one here is floating along toward a gold medal.

                                        Comment

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