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Calmers at horse trials???

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  • Calmers at horse trials???

    Are you allowed to have your horse on Quietex, Smart Calm Ultra or any of those calmers at a reconized horse trial???? I believe I read in the USEF drug manual that you weren't allowed to have them on calmers, but I just want to double check that i read that correctly!!!!
    No Worries!

  • #2
    It's illegal but they will not test of your horse gets drug tested. Make sure none of the ingredients are on the forbidden list in those supplements. Smart calm ultra might have an illegal ingredient in it but I can't remember.

    I'm from hunterland and we use calmers frequently. We also use dexamethasone and robaxin at shows.

    I've used Dynamite Easy-Boy before with luck. Chelated magnesium is more easily absorbed by the body.

    Comment


    • #3
      No, you are not.

      Nor are you allowed to have ear plugs or covers in dressage, although ear nets are legal for jumping.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi, I'd like to start a trainwreck on the eventing forum. Please insert two posts with the exact language of the rules, three comments about the purpose of the rules against feeding your horses performance enhancing substances, four exacerbated outbursts about why no "true eventer" should ever even want to use such substances, and five responses arguing that they may have some merit in some situations. Finish off with at least one suggestion that said "calmers" be applied to the participating posters.

        I'll be sitting back with a glass of wine looking at the pile of tack I'm not cleaning.

        Comment


        • #5
          FEI rules are different than USEF rules. When in doubt, please contact the relevant governing body and not a bulletin board aboutu the substance(s) in question. You will get a straight answer if you ask the right person.

          Or save your money for entry fees and schooling. Calming supplements are a big hoax anyway.
          Click here before you buy.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            I didn't think they were allowed, to me it just seems like a cheat. But a friend of mine was asking about it today and I thought is wasn't ok....I look at eventing the same way I do my racehorses. The "no no" rules are so similar!
            No Worries!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by deltawave View Post
              Or save your money for entry fees and schooling. Calming supplements are a big hoax anyway.
              I'll bite at this one, because I hear/read this from time to time about <fill in the blank> supplement or herb. It states the negative (its a hoax) without laying a foundation to base it on. I'll consider that perhaps there is no scientific report that states, given w amount of x, horse y showed z percentage of calmer attitude (not sure how something like this could be measured).

              From an anecdotal view, there are may reviews of various products, some that get consistent "My horse is better on this then before), some that state "waste of money" so the general feeling is the "something" is happening in certain conditions. Perhaps the "its a hoax" is perpetrated by vets who want solid proof (and don't get a cut of the supplement action), perhaps it viral advertising from competing manufacturers, but just as we don't want to say there is a miracle cure for anxiety, we should not be so quick to say "it don't work". We own horses, we already are thinking outside the box.

              I'm typically tight with money (cause I don't have much) and will be skeptical of "claims" so I try to do research the best I can, but when I got an anxious horse, and I find a product that states, "will help induce calm by balancing mineral levels that may be lacking"; its worth a try. When I see it work...is it the material, is it that giving gave confidence to the rider thus the horse calmed, both? What does it matter if something changed for the better. Placebo's have done wonders for ages, so even if this was a placebo reaction translated to the horse, it works for the end result.

              My trainer tells me you get a calmer horse by becoming a calmer rider, and riding often, and going to different places, and having a good seat, and being confident, and doing what it takes to exude confidence and balance (think like a horse). That's all well and good, but as in humans, we need at times chemicals/herbs to help that process along. Until you can prove the negative, I will tend to believe that there are products that can produce the result stated. it takes effort to research, it takes time for measuring change, and it takes money which is up to the individual. I don't buy the blanket "its a hoax".

              If there is something, like cannibus, I could give a horse to stop being so intense so they can "learn" to relax? I'd consider it if it did no harm. Instead, I use vitamins, supplement, a good trainer, and a shot before going on course to create that sense of calm needed to enjoy my ride.

              Comment


              • #8
                Regardless of whether or not a substance "tests," the intent of using a "calmer," to alter performance, is illegal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Auto Be A Storm View Post
                  Are you allowed to have your horse on Quietex, Smart Calm Ultra or any of those calmers at a reconized horse trial???? I believe I read in the USEF drug manual that you weren't allowed to have them on calmers, but I just want to double check that i read that correctly!!!!
                  Quietex contains Valerian. Not USEF legal.
                  Same is true for Relax.
                  Smart Calm is mostly magnesium which at present is legal.
                  Dex and robaxin are legal in restricted doses ( and not for the purpose of calming)

                  Of course, you can wing it and if you don't get tested then no problem. But if you DO get tested and the horse has had an illegal med you'll be doing time. Vacation from showing time that is and your pocketbook may take a good hit too.

                  Always call USEF if you aren't sure about a medication, supplement or whatever. Saves a lot of trouble later on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by flutie1 View Post
                    Regardless of whether or not a substance "tests," the intent of using a "calmer," to alter performance, is illegal.
                    The key word being "intent."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your best bet is more training.

                      Which IS legal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GotSpots View Post
                        Hi, I'd like to start a trainwreck on the eventing forum. Please insert two posts with the exact language of the rules, three comments about the purpose of the rules against feeding your horses performance enhancing substances, four exacerbated outbursts about why no "true eventer" should ever even want to use such substances, and five responses arguing that they may have some merit in some situations. Finish off with at least one suggestion that said "calmers" be applied to the participating posters.

                        I'll be sitting back with a glass of wine looking at the pile of tack I'm not cleaning.
                        Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                        The Grove at Five Points

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'll consider that perhaps there is no scientific report that states, given w amount of x, horse y showed z percentage of calmer attitude (not sure how something like this could be measured).
                          That sums it up nicely. Absent evidence of efficacy AND safety, I wouldn't waste my money on any such product. Viral advertising doesn't begin to describe the supplement/nutraceutical juggernaut.

                          Even COTH isn't immune, posting "letters to the editor" that are nothing more than (badly) veiled advertisements for the product du jour.

                          But if someone believes they work, perhaps that is all that is needed to have that person ride in a more relaxed and confident manner. I'd say that's far more likely than some of the ridiculous claims these products make.
                          Click here before you buy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The only drugs I have found that are effective are depo in one horse and dex the night before the show in another horse. unfortunately, dex makes my horse sick so he is probably the one out of a few hunters at any given show that aren't medicated. the hunter who used to take depo now does eventing so no need

                            yeah, using stuff to calm is illegal. eventers seem to take it more seriously that h/j world. if our horses were ever tested, they always come up negative. we never over-drug or would do anything that would test illegally nor do we use anything over the recommended therapeutic doses.

                            i don't know why people always ask these questions :/ i'm just being honest about the practices in the h/j world. not saying it is the right thing or wrong. honestly if a horse needs to be drugged before he shows, a 30 min lunge, and a hack before he schools and goes in the ring...he probably shouldn't be doing what he does. that is probably why hunters break down so quickly.

                            i really haven't found a calming "supplement" that works. my horse gets chelated magnesium sometimes...but I really don't notice enough of a difference to say it is a miracle supplement. sorry :/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by subk View Post
                              The key word being "intent."
                              I beg to differ. The rules say NOTHING about "intent".
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                In order to determine if a "calmer" is illegal, check the list of ingredients, and compare it with the list of forbidden substances in the Drugs and Medication Guidelines
                                http://www.usef.org/documents/drugsM...elines2012.pdf

                                They are only "samples" so it is possible that a substance not on the list might be forbidden. But checking the list is a good place to start.


                                Originally posted by Auto Be A Storm View Post
                                Are you allowed to have your horse on Quietex, Smart Calm Ultra or any of those calmers at a reconized horse trial???? I believe I read in the USEF drug manual that you weren't allowed to have them on calmers, but I just want to double check that i read that correctly!!!!
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I'll be sitting back with a glass of wine looking at the pile of tack I'm not cleaning.
                                  Hay get to cleaning. I got my pile of tack done. It had only been sitting around for 3 months, I sure wish I could find that nice bridle bag I got to store every thing in Nice and big holds three bridles with a pocket on the front
                                  "Looked bigger when I couldn't see him."~ Jayne Cobb

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                    That sums it up nicely. Absent evidence of efficacy AND safety, I wouldn't waste my money on any such product. Viral advertising doesn't begin to describe the supplement/nutraceutical juggernaut.
                                    I just found this article while "working" at the office. Horses sought for Louisiana osteoarthritis study. R&D is very expensive, I appreciate that so to read that a study is being funded to look into herbs to manage a problem is pretty significant. They may find nothing, but at least they're looking at options other then prescription drugs.

                                    I looked through some of your past postings about horse care and without a doubt you provide great advice (some I've been able to use). I just feel that between extremes is a workable option for those dealing with horse problems. Case in point, I have been leery about using pop-rocks (blue pops) as a substitute for ulcer-guard for the very comment you make. I read that the product is not consistent in quality and if not providing minimal effect could do more harm. Yet UG can be a major budget issue, so I read, research, balance extremes and figure the next time I need that type of care, I'll go with the advice you provided in another post.

                                    I know this is off topic from the OP, and I agree that when people make "outrageous" claims it typically is too good to be true (Oh for a cure for lower ring bone on my mare...wait...'Try Ring-bone-Away, in two days your horse will jump like Courageous Comet'...yeah...right). yet when I read a consistent set of comments and research tells me that the products themselves are not harmful (not talking illegal here), then it may cost me a bit to test, but if it works then both horse and rider gain.

                                    Anyway, I get your point and stay away from the extreme, but feel better providing my horses with vitamins to supplement the feed they get. I try to stay away from pain killers unless really needed, because I don't want to mask when my horse may begin to feel off. I am learning to listen to them at all levels.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I get your point and stay away from the extreme, but feel better providing my horses with vitamins to supplement the feed they get.
                                      I'm not much into supplements in general, but don't believe I've ever come down too harshly on simple vitamins and minerals. I use one on my horses.

                                      However, I don't consider herbal remedies in the same category, as a good number of these products have definite, legitimate drug effects and that means definite, legitimate RISKS to go along with the potential benefits.

                                      When I hear comments (general reference here, not directed at anyone) like "Why not? It can't hurt." I cringe. I see reminders nearly every month, if not more often, of how herbal products can cause very, very definite harm.

                                      I (try to) draw a big distinction between these products and general vitamin "supplements". Sorry if that isn't more clear.
                                      Click here before you buy.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                        I (try to) draw a big distinction between these products and general vitamin "supplements". Sorry if that isn't more clear.
                                        Actually, I get that

                                        You sound like my trainer when she was training me about horse care (still wet behind the ears really). "Err on the side of caution", "When in doubt, ask the vet", "There's no miracle cure", and my favorite "Oh that, its just a bite, horses will be horses" stated after I flipped out seeing a !Massive gash! (really a small bite) on my delicate flower Roll the clock forward 4 years and now I'm the one going, "calm down, its just a scratch" after my SO worries herself to death over her pony.

                                        As always, thank you for your thoughts, they add to my growing pile of knowledge.

                                        Comment

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