• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Made horses as opposed to bringing them up the levels

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Made horses as opposed to bringing them up the levels

    I can see why they do it. I don't ride past training and have no desire too, and I am sure that a good upper level rider can bring a horse up from greenie to training faster than I can. I bet they also have a good eye for a horse and can pick a horse likely to move up the levels fast, but really, how much does it cost to start a horse from scratch and campaign it till it's ready to go advanced, and what would be the average amount of time that horse would need?
    If you figured out the cost per hour of riding and schooling, the cost of traveling and entries, then how much money has been invested in a horse by the time it is ready for a 3*?
    And what about that market for those hard working riders that start horses and compete them until they are worth some money?

  • #2
    There's a lot of threads on here about this subject.. search Nina Ligon and find the thread I started and I think there was some speculation on numbers.

    IIRC it can take 6 figures just to campaign an UL horse. Add on the cost of "making" that horse and you've got a mortgage on a McMansion and a couple Range Rovers.
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."



    • #3
      It's not just the cost, factor in the risk also. A lot can go wrong and zero out (really n! factorially negate) your bank acct.

      Personally I would not want to miss out on that feeling that you get when a greenie discovers their joy of xcountry!
      Don't let anyone tell you that your ideas or dreams are foolish. There is a millionaire walking around who invented the pool noodle.


      • #4
        But there is also when they don't. I am on my 3rd greenie in 2.5 years because the prior two made it really clear that they didn't want to go cross-country (one is a star stadium/hunters jumping and the other really wants to be a dressage horse). The two before that were both injured just as they were ready to make the move up to preliminary (one permanently to lower levels, the other still hoping he will move up after rehabbing from his most recent injury). This is not a fool-proof way of getting your next upper level competition mount, fine for me because I have no upper level aspirations, but not so good if you want to make a team.
        Last edited by scubed; Dec. 7, 2011, 09:13 AM.
        OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!


        • #5
          Really, if you can spend $100k and get a proven *** horse with potential to do a ****, that is probably not a bad deal. Except most people will never have that kind of money in hand, and would not be able to justify spending it on a horse if they did (let's face it, there is no worse investment!)

          As far as actual costs-- doing everything at the absolutely cheapest level, it has taken me five years and probably close to $20k to bring my horse from free, quirky, very green 10- year old, to consistent and occasionally moderately competitive Prelim competitor. That is including all his expenses living at my grandparents', vet bills, lessons, entry fees, gas, etc. It is not including the numerous times he has dumped me/ publicly humiliated me, broken my tailbone, collarbone, etc., nor does it include, of course, the many, many hours of my life I have spent, or the tears I have shed I could probably buy a slightly quirky/ older Prelim horse for $20k, but I could not have done that and ridden and competed for the last five years.


          • #6
            I don't know for sure, but something going 3*, with potential to move to 4* is prolly NOT 100k. I have heard of those horses bring mid-six figures, and offers of seven, turned down. Not saying it is the norm, but it is happening.

            Of course, obviously, those are the creme de le creme of the bunch......did I spell that right? Prolly not.

            It's cost us about 30k to bring the 2* horse to this point. Planning on advanced this spring....so needing some injections, and other things....and he isn't very competitive dressage wise....working on it! We recently were offered a nice amount for him to be a YR horse for someone.

            I think part of the attraction for the serious pro to buy a horse is TIME. It takes time to ride horses. Even in the best case scenario, where someone warms it up, and untacks, you still have time commitment. if you have a prospering business, your time becomes very valuable. Bringing a baby up is time consuming, with very little guarantees. it almost is cost prohibitive, if you can buy something that 6 months down the road has you competing in the Olympics.

            Just my .02 worth
            May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.


            • #7
              Originally posted by gold2012 View Post
              I don't know for sure, but something going 3*, with potential to move to 4* is prolly NOT 100k. I have heard of those horses bring mid-six figures, and offers of seven, turned down. Not saying it is the norm, but it is happening.

              Of course, obviously, those are the creme de le creme of the bunch.
              I'd disagree with that just a little bit. I think the only eventing horse that is going to get seven figures is a proven four star horse, with the potential to WIN four stars, in the year before the Olympics.

              I'd say a winning three star horse with the potential to win four stars is going to run between $200-300K.

              But if the horse can run around 3* and do a 4* but might not be anywhere near the top? $100-$150K if they can pack someone around at that level. ($150K if they can pack someone around Rolex, $100K if they can only pack someone around 2-3*.

              And I'm in the same boat as you gold2012, my horse isn't ever going to win the dressage, he gets too tense. But he could pack someone around a 2* no problem, and we're moving up to A this winter. I'll report back on his ability to pack someone around A at that point...


              • #8
                I seem to recall someone saying to expect to shell out 100k from start to advanced (I think I was whining about the costs of running Vernon at the one star level, keeping him happy, fit, and healthy, etc). I think this is probably a pretty good ball park.

                And, like scubed, just because you buy a nice young horse does not guarantee you will be riding it at advanced (let alone getting results that get you noticed) in X number of years. I have been blessed with some nice horse flesh over the last 9 years. Some boys that had "what it takes" to at least GET to advanced. But all I have to show for it is some unsatisfactory results at the one star level, and a lot of money, tears, and frustration spent on those nice horses who wouldn't, for one reason or another, use what they had. It isn't easy

                Of course, I'm not already at the top...just trying to get there. Someone already there may find their results are better....but, I kinda don't think that's the case. They may just have higher volume.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Divine Comedy View Post
                  I'd disagree 2-3*.

                  And I'm in the same boat as you gold2012, my horse isn't ever going to win the dressage, he gets too tense. But he could pack someone around a 2* no problem, and we're moving up to A this winter. I'll report back on his ability to pack someone around A at that point...
                  LOL..I hear ya! Ours hasn't the movement, but he is obedient and has floppy ears...pretty sure he was a hound dog in previous life! Hoping will do a bit better in dressage, since he has changes! And he is puppy dog type. Will let you know if he would be a packer at advanced! Can't wait for February to get here!
                  May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.


                  • #10
                    My data show $100,000 to be about 1/2 the cost of making an advanced horse, on average, when all costs are loaded (excluding the rider's time) and the probability of success (achieving advanced) are included. The actual cost should be REDUCED by the sales price of any horses sold which washed out before advanced.


                    • #11
                      As a top-level event rider, you have to choose your focus. Unless you can afford enough staff and stalls, you can't have a both a crop of youngsters (which will inevitable get weeded out) and a string of going horses.

                      (You can do this in the UK or Ireland because of the way competitions are organized, with one-day HTs running during the week. But not in the US, at least not on the same scale.)

                      If you're a pro rider, there's no point in acquiring anything that doesn't want to do what you want it to do. In the UK/Ireland, the trad method was to get some potential Novices (3'6" Novice) in their late 5/early 6 year. These horses would have clear-round showjumped, hunted and/or hunter trialed. You would know if they were suitable for XC.

                      A talented, well-started horse should progress through the levels fairly quickly, without too many runs. No point in spending time at the LLs unless they're learning something, but you will see pro-ridden 5 year-olds going out a dozen or more times at N and T (in one season!).

                      The standard model in the UK was BE Novice (3'6") at 6, ready for Advanced at late 8/rising 9. A horse with sufficient talent and the right brain will do this easily.

                      But again, as a pro RIDER, if your focus is on competition RIDING, then you're not so wise to spend your time starting babies and cantering around N and T, especially if there's a good chance the horse won't be suitable for the sport.


                      • #12
                        Problem, JER, is that many Pros make their livings by selling and training, not by riding. They have to have horses available who can do 2* or 3* and anything lower to keep their riding going. It's necessary for them to have horses in training to have them to sell.
                        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                        Thread killer Extraordinaire