• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

XC and speed, need help

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • XC and speed, need help

    So I'll try and describe my problem as clearly as possible. Right now I am competing two horses at the Prelim level. One is a big 16.2 Tb with a huge ground covering stride. The other is a very small Tb with a short fast gallop.
    Here's the problem. Lately I am often being accused of going much too fast on the smaller horse. But I almost always have time faults on him. Usually between 15-20 on average. The larger horse makes time without even trying, but his speed is never questioned.
    I have competed through the CCI** level. I feel pretty confident that I know how to rate my horses. I want to play by the rules. If I'm told to go slower without question I do. I want to be as safe as possible. But it's gotten to the point that I'm scared to let go of his face b/c I am scared of being accused of going too fast.
    This little TB has been competing at Prelim for three years. Only one stop XC in those three years. He has the scope to be competing at the upper levels. He always jumps balanced and in stride. I know he has an "ugly" gallop. He tends to keep his head up and I know his stride is a bit short and fast. I have been to shows where riders with refusals have made better time than I have. Yet, there speed is not questioned and mine is.
    Has anyone ever had this problem? Is it possible that he just looks faster than he really is? How can I help his gallop appear more rideable?

  • #2
    Who is "accusing" you? If time and again you are getting warnings from TDs, etc. then I would make a point of talking to them ahead of time, showing them your competitive record and the horse's XC times. Explain that the horse is short-strided but safe and not, in fact, too fast. If it's your trainer, I'd listen up and ask what he/she thinks can be done about it. If, OTOH, it's just chitter-chatter, I'd simply smile and keep riding.
    Click here before you buy.


    • #3
      What exactly are you being told? How are the officials justifying questioning your speed when you're having time faults? Maybe in your efforts to make the time you're not 'setting up' at the fences?

      Third Charm Event Team


      • #4
        I actually don't agree with DW at all on this one. Your competition record to my mind doesn't mean much as to whether you're going too fast on course, because time faults are based on an average speed. Thus, it is entirely possible to be going too fast and still have time faults. Your time is over the entire course - so if someone is going hellbent for leather in between the jumps and then tug-tug-tug to slow down for a jump, and then go-go-go, it's very easy to have time faults and not have been riding at an appropriate pace. Or, if you're riding some jumps at an incorrect speed and balance for the question (like, for example, wing-dinging at a coffin), you could be going "too fast" even if you're not making the time.

        It's pretty rare in my experience that someone will say you are going "too fast" just because you're on a short-strided horse (heck, we have a just over pony-sized Connemara that always makes time and has about an 8 foot stride but he's so well balanced he looks smooth and laidback). The fastest horses on course usually don't look like they are going that fast - think of someone like Philip or Kim, who are so efficient in their pace. If you're getting repeated comments that you are going too fast, I'd listen to them. How about asking what it is folks are seeing - because I bet it's not just sheer footspeed. What about videoing a bunch of your rides and asking a good coach to review them with you? Or take a clinic or an XC lesson and see what folks are telling you?


        • Original Poster

          Gotpots, I see what you are saying. This horse does like to land a fence and go. Though I'm definitely not kicking him on after each fence tying to make the time. If anything I am holding him back. Like I said, we have been going prelim for three years and this past season is the first time my round has ever been questioned.
          I work with a very well respected BNT on a daily basis. I am lucky enough to ride 6-8 horses a day. He tells me that my speed is fine and if anything I need to get out of his mouth and let the horse do his job. But one TD telling me that I was going too fast is too many for me.
          This horse has a very sensitive mouth. Whenever I set up for a fence he always has a few strides where he chucks his head. Not pretty, but I feel like I always have him balanced for the jump.


          • #6
            GS, I also see your point and (in my haste) hadn't even considered that possibility. Mea culpa. I was sort of assuming the horse looked out of control but wasn't, not that speed was excessive at times and not at others.
            Click here before you buy.


            • #7
              As our work is showing there is little correllation between the observation of a horse and how fast they are actually going. Many times even the rider has no idea how fast or slow they are going.

              I agree with GotSpots. At the same time, DON'T get locked in the idea of now having to make your ride "look" slow or fast. The key is BALANCED.



              • #8
                Two things make me think that the problem here may not be speed, but the manner in which the speed is controlled. One is the OP saying that she "hangs on the horses' head" and the other is the horse throwing his head up before fences.

                If your sole means of control is through the rein aid, then you will ALWAYS be going too fast, IMO.

                I think this is related to what GotSpots is saying : how smooth is your round, as a whole?


                • #9
                  Actually, this issue has come up amongst a few prelim riders who ride with my coach ( a big time BNR) this spring. At several events, 2 particular riders were criticized after XC by the officials who felt they had both gone too fast. Both riders finished within about 10 seconds (over or under) the optimum time on both occasions and had what they and our coach felt were nice rides without any reasons for concerns. Both are in their first season at prelim on nice horses (16'0 and 16'2). My coach was rather unhappy about this and felt it was unwarranted. His opinion was that if coming in on the OT was too fast, the OT should be adjusted. He is an FEI official and needless to say the officials at the events who discussed it with him and the riders sort of let it die after realizing they were his students. According to my coach, this has been an increasing concern amongst officials in the last 12 months.

                  Strangely, I have not heard anything at the same events about my time, and I feel I ride very quickly in general as long as my horse is going well and in good balance. At one of these events, I was also competing at prelim and I was the only person at that level to make the time...and I finished 20 seconds under (I was preparing to move the horse up to intermediate and he had a very smooth ride.) My coach and I were both quite surprised that other riders were told they had gone too fast, and I was actually given a pat on the back from the some of the event staff who said, "great job being the only one to make the time!"

                  This all has led me to the conclusion that what is really bothering the officials is the balance to the fences rather than the speed. Or prehaps these riders are having a few sticky spots, and the officials feel that in that case they should be slowing down. Because it does not seem to be an issue with speed per se...as it seems like the OP is noting when she is NOT accused of riding too fast on her other horse who is making the time. but it does seem to be a phenomena that is a lot more common this year, for whatever reason. Just out of curiosity, to the OP, are you in Area 3? I wonder if you have had this problem at some of the same events the riders I know have?


                  • Original Poster

                    Blackwly, it actually was an area 3 event where this first came up. I finished what I thought was a great XC ride. BNT told me that "was how to ride XC". About 10 minutes later I was getting a stern warning from the TD, who admitted she had not actually seen my ride but a jump judge had radioed in saying I was going way too fast. I had about 8 time penalties that day, on a course that most riders were making time.
                    It was after that event that I started holding him back and being too much in the reins. I was just so horrified that someone thought I looked out of control.
                    Overall I think my courses ride pretty smoothly. I don't go for the long distances or let him run fast and flat through the combinations. I'm afraid that it is the head tossing that makes us look out of control. He always throws his head up for a few strides when I go to organize him before a jump. I am sure it looks hideous.
                    But like many of you suggested this is most likely not a speed issue, but a balance issue. Something to definitely work on.


                    • #11
                      Keep in mind that the jump judges ARE NOT TRAINERS. Or, in many cases, very experienced horsepeople. Or horsepeople at ALL. Are you going to freak out and change your riding style, contrary to your trainer's wishes, based on what basically amounts to railbird nitter-nattering?

                      I would address the head-chucking issue, though, and work on having a better balance before fences. Get more half-halt and balance from your body, consider a bit change, a hackamore, school canter-halt, whatever.

                      Third Charm Event Team


                      • #12
                        Eventingdaze, it sounds like it may have been the same place we were. Since it sounds like you're getting good help, you're experienced and you've got the sense God gave you, I'd probably just say, "Well, thanks for the input!" to the TD and shrug it off. That was my coaches advice to the 2 riders in our group, anyway. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if we have some overzealous officials out there now and again given the current safety climate. The best you can do is give their opinions honest consideration and keep working on getting better!