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The French know...

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  • #81
    Originally posted by LisaB View Post
    Lara,
    you have valid points but those of us who don't specifically care about breed, observe that the American arabs that we see out competing are not cut out for eventing. Your horses are great, sure but I see arabs out there where the rider is doing nothing wrong and horse just isn't cut out for it. .
    You could take the word Arab out of that and replace it with just about any breed, and it would be an accurate statement.

    I don't think anyone here is saying, "hey, if you're looking for your next **** prospect, get an Arab".
    At least, I'm not.
    What we're saying is that *some* Arabs are quite suitable for eventing, and that Arab blood has a lot to recommend it.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

    Comment


    • #82
      Because AllAnglos, what we're saying is that there's a difference between American Arabs and European Arabs.
      It's like why don't we have a lot more men riding English? Europeans have a larger % of men vs. women riding. Well, we've got this whole western culture that sends most men to that world (I still say it's the pants).
      And I wouldn't plug in any breed into my statement. I've seen a whole lot more draft x's, qh's, apps, paints do fine in eventing than I do arabs.
      You guys that breed sport arabs are really enlightening us. Thank you. BUT I still see very few to nil Arabs out there eventing. I still stand by my observations that I do see these spindly little spooky things attempting to jump and aren't cut out for it.
      How to stop that? I'm sure you guys are beating your heads against the wall on that one because the breed shows cater to a certain type that really aren't cross pollinating to other sports. And we hit a nerve. Sorry!
      Even duct tape can't fix stupid

      Comment


      • #83
        The Anglo-Arab studbook was created in South Western France in 1833. The French Anglo-Arab is the product of a careful breeding program much like the Selle Français or Percheron. So the French Anglo-Arab has little to do with the get of a "any" modern Tb X Arab.

        It's a little like saying that crossing a Belgian with a Tb will give you a Warmblood. lol
        Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!

        Comment


        • #84
          Originally posted by LisaB View Post
          .......You guys that breed sport arabs are really enlightening us. Thank you. BUT I still see very few to nil Arabs out there eventing. I still stand by my observations that I do see these spindly little spooky things attempting to jump and aren't cut out for it.
          How to stop that? I'm sure you guys are beating your heads against the wall on that one because the breed shows cater to a certain type that really aren't cross pollinating to other sports......
          Yep, we've felt like we've been beating our heads against the wall for a long time .... that's also one of the reasons something like 80% of Arab owners DO NOT SHOW, many of whom left the show ring because of what was being promoted both in halter and the ring-around-the-rosy so-called 'pleasure' classes.

          We're finally making some progress though, a lot of it thanks to the 'net'. We've found that there are true horsemen all over the U.S. who own and love their Arabs and do NOT subscribe to what goes on in the showring ... LOTS of them, in fact the, until recently, silent majority. People have gained courage in knowledge that they're not alone. They're speaking out and voting with their feet against the existing 'show' atmosphere.

          The 'halter' scene almost died, this year we have a new scored system that might actually work to weed out some of the nonsense. The sport horse classes, especially in hand (shown on the triangle) but also under saddle have grown by leaps and bounds. The interest in Dressage has exploded, and now, with Allanglos at the committee helm, the H/J is beginning to develop the way it should have been before. The rail 'pleasure' classes have steadily lost numbers while working western classes (cutting, reining, working cow) have increased in numbers with interest in developing a really accomplished horse/rider pair. Carriage obstacle driving and reinsmanship is growing rapidly. And, guess what .... people in these disciplines are asking for, and in many cases new rules actually require the use of allbreed discipline specific judges.

          Yep, things are looking up, but we do have a very long way to go. The 'problems' in breeding and training didn't develop over night, but we are at least started toward changing some of them.... at least we have all learned that those who breed and promote "those spindly little spooky things" are actually in the minority..... something we weren't aware of before the instant communication of the 'net'.
          Sharon
          Larapinta Sport Horses
          Arab Eventers

          Comment


          • #85
            When I got my first Arab I got all the Arab mags and went and watched all the shows.
            Wandering around one show I found the dressage arena outside and away from most anything relating to the show. It was my first time ever to see a dressage horse/test - at an Arab show - no less. Weird - I was a little "overcome" - I thought it was so beautiful - and thought to myself, "that is what I want to do". And eventually did.
            I think I one time showed at an Arab show in dressage. After that - never even went back to watch an Arab show. Now I will say I love/d to watch a correct English Pleasure horse go. I have often made the comparison dressage vs EP - what might be more fun for the horse and rider. I think quite possibly EP might win out for the horse - w/t/c - go forward.
            I remember riding dressage thinking - darn - this is a lovely canter - but time to change gaits or something. Dressage tests are "busy" - I think EP more fun for the horse being able to stay longer in the same gait - "strutting his stuff" (I would have loved that, too!) - particularly if the horse has a carousel look/feel and w/t/c!!! I don't know - does that suit the Arab mind better? But I digress. I had hoped show-hack was going to be dressage in the arena - like EP - but correct dressage - with classes with Arabs and Arabs crossed with all breeds - like Lips, TB's and WB's - creating/furthering a foundation/interest/awareness of athletic Arab sporthorses. That did not exactly happen as I thought - but then the Sporthorse Nationals etc came into being. Lovely horses there.
            I also think something that did a disservice (sp?) to the breed was when the halter horses started being "stretched" - going for that level croup - and then breeding for it.
            I love the photos of the old guys -way back when - just posed naturally.
            Arab blood has so much to offer for sport.............

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
              When I got my first Arab I got all the Arab mags and went and watched all the shows.
              Wandering around one show I found the dressage arena outside and away from most anything relating to the show. It was my first time ever to see a dressage horse/test - at an Arab show - no less. Weird - I was a little "overcome" - I thought it was so beautiful - and thought to myself, "that is what I want to do". And eventually did.
              I think I one time showed at an Arab show in dressage. After that - never even went back to watch an Arab show. Now I will say I love/d to watch a correct English Pleasure horse go. I have often made the comparison dressage vs EP - what might be more fun for the horse and rider. I think quite possibly EP might win out for the horse - w/t/c - go forward.
              I remember riding dressage thinking - darn - this is a lovely canter - but time to change gaits or something. Dressage tests are "busy" - I think EP more fun for the horse being able to stay longer in the same gait - "strutting his stuff" (I would have loved that, too!) - particularly if the horse has a carousel look/feel and w/t/c!!! I don't know - does that suit the Arab mind better? But I digress. I had hoped show-hack was going to be dressage in the arena - like EP - but correct dressage - with classes with Arabs and Arabs crossed with all breeds - like Lips, TB's and WB's - creating/furthering a foundation/interest/awareness of athletic Arab sporthorses. That did not exactly happen as I thought - but then the Sporthorse Nationals etc came into being. Lovely horses there.
              I also think something that did a disservice (sp?) to the breed was when the halter horses started being "stretched" - going for that level croup - and then breeding for it.
              I love the photos of the old guys -way back when - just posed naturally.
              Arab blood has so much to offer for sport.............

              Hah!
              First Arab show I went to was as a groom (over 20 years ago), with friend who was showing 2 horses--PB stallion and Clyde/Arab gelding.
              She was the entire 1st level and above dressage division.
              We asked the show office where the dressage ring was--no clue.
              so we cruised around the grounds till we saw someone in tall boots and found it thatway!

              Things are better now.
              I ran the dressage at AHANE about 9-10 years back, and we had 2 rings on one day, and one on the second,and the entries were full.
              "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

              ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

              Comment


              • #87
                YIKES ... you guys really make me feel OLD. Went to my first Arab show 49 years ago ... when I was 14. Got to travel a bit and met *A. Ibn Halima when he was only 3, have videos .. also of Fadjur, etc., and at Al Marah when they were still in MD, Cedardell, Friendship Farms, Lewisfield (many of the 'oldies' that are long gone). Saw my first Nationals when they were still part of the Texas State Fair (right after they left Estes Park). Worked at Nationals every year they were in OKC.

                Bred my first Half-Arab at 21, discovered distance riding at 26, daughter started Pony Club at 12 (after getting IAHA Nat. Top Ten CTR at age 8 way back in '81), did her first Event at 14 on my CTR mare 22 years ago (Gen. Burton was dressage judge, Sally O'Connor the TD).... I ended up PC Jt. DC and coached her through her H-A rating. Her Eventing coach was Mike Huber, at Tipasa in Norman, Ok (where I learned LOTS about running an Event from Judy Huber), until he moved to Texas, then during her Young Rider years we traveled to Texas a couple times a month so she could keep working with Mike .... all ancient history now.

                Needless to say, during all the PC stuff and USEA YR years we almost entirely dropped out of anything connected with Arabs ... but Chrissi usually rode an Arab or Arab cross, including on the PC regional Eventing team and the Area V Young Rider's team. She's ridden some very nice Tbs and other breeds, but for her, the Arab or Arab cross has always given her the best performance.

                The second Arab we brought to Mike, I actually appologized for simply getting a bigger Arab (all of 15.2+), but Mike's reply was ... " Does he have talent?" and he never batted an eye. Dez became the smallest horse on the YR team, while Chris at 5'9" was one of the tallest. Oh, the memories.
                Sharon
                Larapinta Sport Horses
                Arab Eventers

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                  Then why are Anglo Arabians rated #2 in the world in eventing?
                  Perhaps like so many WB people the Arab people discount the TB influence?

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Sharon - don't feel so old!! I was about that age in the early 70's when we moved to the boonies of NW Houston from Kansas. Real culture shock. I rode the schoolbus from our subdivision to school - miles away - only learning years later each day I had gone right by Gleannloch Farms!!! I think A. Ibn Halima was there for awhile in training with Tom.
                    If only I had known!!! I think "AIH" is/was about my favorite SE stallion. A certain "roundness" "seriousness" about him. Very nice offspring that I could see in a sporthorse program. My late horse - his g.son 2x as mentioned - must have been much like him - he would not ever lower himself to be silly - he was very serious. Aloof.
                    To boot - he had been a stallion and ridden by young gal in dressage - no one had any idea he was a stallion. I have known many of that line to have wonderful temperaments, easy to train with wonderful "roundish" gaits. Now, Morafic I just don't know. His type would have a hard time being accepted in the sporthorse world, rest his soul.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      The French do know it - the Selle Francais has been selected for jumping for a long time. Their horses have the frame and the style over a fence. That's where I'd go looking. Post #61 shows a fascinating group of jumping Arabians, but few have the classic form that is being bred into horses these days. The flat croup does not lend itself to tucking under and powering off the ground, and a lot of them are jumping hollow. However, with Macho AA and Inschallah, Ramzes getting further and further back, the qualities of good feet, strong legs, mind (the real Arabian mind, not the ditzy one), and endurance could do with re-introduction. It seems they are out there by this thread.
                      Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Page 5 and no-one has mentioned WINSOME ADANTE!!

                        This may come as a shock to many, but Winsome Adante is not a thoroughbred... or as announced at his retired at the Rolex 'an Irish Sporthorse bred in Ireland' he is in fact a British Sporthorse and part anglo-arab!

                        His dam Juswith Genoa was out of a mare called Just Gingerbred, who was by the HOYS Champion Anglo-Arab Carbrooke Surprise.
                        Julia
                        http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk
                        Future Sport Horses - Breeding Future Champions

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #92
                          ABERJACK is also part Arab, 1/8 I think. They just don't mention that.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by LisaB View Post
                            Because AllAnglos, what we're saying is that there's a difference between American Arabs and European Arabs.
                            !
                            Not a valid distinction- American and European breeding programs are now so intermingled as to be indestinguishable.

                            Tom N
                            U.S. Olympic Waterboarding Team- Beijing 08

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by subk View Post
                              Perhaps like so many WB people the Arab people discount the TB influence?
                              Guess where the TBs came from.

                              Tom N
                              U.S. Olympic Waterboarding Team- Beijing 08

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by Samrdr1 View Post
                                Not a valid distinction- American and European breeding programs are now so intermingled as to be indestinguishable.

                                Tom N
                                That's what I have been trying to say, but guess I've not been succinct enough?
                                The Inverted Y
                                Thoroughbred and Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
                                2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year.
                                www.allanglos.net

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  I have a friend who bought an Arab who has been up to third level dressage. His name is Misty Meadows Padorr, I think, and he's gray and quite lovely.

                                  She doesn't own anything but Arabs and Arab crosses, and she has always has a bunch of them around for training in English disciplines and for school horses.

                                  What I'm wondering is whether the submission required in dressage wouldn't be really against the basic nature (and intelligence) of most Arabs? Somehow the idea of an Arab waiting for his/her rider to tell him when and where to put every foot just seems absurd.
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by vineyridge View Post

                                    What I'm wondering is whether the submission required in dressage wouldn't be really against the basic nature (and intelligence) of most Arabs? Somehow the idea of an Arab waiting for his/her rider to tell him when and where to put every foot just seems absurd.

                                    Well, I know it isn't exclusive to Arabs, but I've learned to be very careful not to practice dressage tests because my Arabs learn them faster than I do...
                                    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      ...and then there is little Teddy with his phenomenal jump. Definitely does not jump like a deer even with his Arab blood.
                                      Cry.
                                      Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
                                        ...and then there is little Teddy with his phenomenal jump. Definitely does not jump like a deer even with his Arab blood.
                                        Cry.
                                        We're all crying with you
                                        Sharon
                                        Larapinta Sport Horses
                                        Arab Eventers

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          I've always found that Arab-breds do well if you make them think things are their idea...lol

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